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Post by LockeRulez on May 11, 2010 22:31:52 GMT -5
> Where did the animosity between them come from? How is MIB the essence of evil?
because Jacob is lying... MIB being evil is just Myth that's grown over the years... MIB is not the essence of evil... he just wanted to get out. and i bet we find out that "killing" people on the island isn't as bad as we think.. because of whatever's up with the Sideways... like you still exist there so killing you on island isn't that bad (or even leads you to the sideways)... too many of our good guys have died for "The Island" to be the end of you.
GO TEAM UNLOCKE!
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Post by blop on May 11, 2010 22:32:31 GMT -5
I liked that line too  "Your questions only lead to more questions". And I think it's very true. If they told us the smoke monster was created through particles in the light coming together in a chemical reaction of some awesome scientific nature, we would wonder where this 'exotic matter' came from. And so on. Not everything can be explained, just like there's many incredible things that we can't explain today, such as quantum stuffs, dark matter, etc. |
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Post by blop on May 11, 2010 22:36:23 GMT -5
I get the whole wanting Locke to have been seeing the cave, but I don't see how that makes sense. We see Locke when he sees the light. The monster approaches and Locke looks up into the trees. I don't think the trees is where the cave of light is.... Ahh, but we DON'T! We never really know when it was that Locke sees the light. In Walkabout, the Smoke Monster approaches him. It's not until the next episode that Locke tells Jack that he "looked into the eye of the island". We assumed it was the smoke monster, but we also knew there was something that happened there we didn't see. I think what happened was Locke was shown/found the cave of light. He took it as a sign, and placed all his faith in the island. |
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Post by jasonrhodes on May 11, 2010 22:36:48 GMT -5
I thought it was fantastic. I'm not sure why some people are still asking for MIB's name... we saw this episode that he doesn't have a name!!! His mother didn't name him, she was killed, and the two brothers had no need for another name to give MIB. They were the only ones. Jacob was Jacob, brother was MIB. Haha no need for another name? Brother was MIB? They called him MIB? Why would Allison Janney have kept the Jacob name if they were the only 3 and could just always refer to "your brother"? I'm sorry but it's just so grasping and lame. Ok, so how did he become a pillar of smoke? Oh right, because he got hit in the head and then got pushed down a river into a cave of magical light, which may or may not have killed him. If that's the quality of answer that satisfies you, you are easily pleased! And if she stopped them from creating the donkey wheel, how did it get built? What a tease to show us how it gets built and then go HAHA nah, that wasn't it, we'll show you later, maybe! Not to mention, they'll never explain anything more about how a wheel in a wall transports people to Tunisia, except maybe to say that it's the Magical Light again. Sigh. Yeah I'm bitter tonight. I still love the show and will watch every second of every piece of programming they put out. But I have no hope of being pleased.  |
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Post by spinaltumor on May 11, 2010 22:41:59 GMT -5
> Where did the animosity between them come from? How is MIB the essence of evil? because Jacob is lying... MIB being evil is just Myth that's grown over the years... MIB is not the essence of evil... he just wanted to get out. and i bet we find out that "killing" people on the island isn't as bad as we think.. because of whatever's up with the Sideways... like you still exist there so killing you on island isn't that bad (or even leads you to the sideways)... too many of our good guys have died for "The Island" to be the end of you. GO TEAM UNLOCKE! Darlton have specifically said that MIB is the embodiment of evil and should be seen as the antagonist. That after The Candidate we should have no doubt. But I don't see it. I'm still Team Jacob. But I never was because I thought one was good and the other bad. I've always figured they were each out for their own gray reasons. Darlton saying that it isn't gray just confuses me. |
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Post by spinaltumor on May 11, 2010 22:45:42 GMT -5
I get the whole wanting Locke to have been seeing the cave, but I don't see how that makes sense. We see Locke when he sees the light. The monster approaches and Locke looks up into the trees. I don't think the trees is where the cave of light is.... Ahh, but we DON'T! We never really know when it was that Locke sees the light. In Walkabout, the Smoke Monster approaches him. It's not until the next episode that Locke tells Jack that he "looked into the eye of the island". We assumed it was the smoke monster, but we also knew there was something that happened there we didn't see. I think what happened was Locke was shown/found the cave of light. He took it as a sign, and placed all his faith in the island. The light from the cave should be the same light from the donkey wheel. Locke didn't appear to see the light with the same attitude when he went to turn the wheel. I don't really like the thought of Lost pulling a fast one on us. I'd see it as more them forcing a connection that really isn't there. Showing Locke see the cave back then would have made me accept it in this episode. But the cave is out of no where, so I don't like it. |
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Post by jasonrhodes on May 11, 2010 22:46:39 GMT -5
spinaltumor, I'm guessing that when noname got thrown down the cave, he absorbed all the light (good/bad, life/death) and became smokey who now is what the cave once was. Which would be why we've never seen the cave. Doesn't explain how the donkey wheel still worked though. Eh. blop, the "every answer I give you will only lead to another question" sounded like a big F--- YOU from the writers to all the fans who have questions. It seriously sounds like the writers are acting like, "We don't have to tell you ANYTHING, all we owe you is to tell you what the sideways world is and some very vague mythology." There's not just two extremes of answers, either you tell us that the smoke monster was created by a Magical Cave or by Magical Butterflies in the Sky, or else you explain the mathematical equation by which a human can be transformed into a pillar of living smoke. Good writers, especially good mystery and sci-fi writers, excel at finding a middle ground. Giving us an answer that is moderately satisfying while still requiring us to suspend a level of disbelief. I don't think this episode excelled at that on any level, in any respect, with regards to any answer whatsoever. And that is why I'm severely disappointed.
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Post by jhess74 on May 11, 2010 22:47:49 GMT -5
Did anyone notice if it said anywhere in the episode what year it was when Jacob and MIB were born? If Richard came to the island in the 1860's, when did their mom wash up on shore?
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Post by blop on May 11, 2010 22:48:47 GMT -5
I thought it was fantastic. I'm not sure why some people are still asking for MIB's name... we saw this episode that he doesn't have a name!!! His mother didn't name him, she was killed, and the two brothers had no need for another name to give MIB. They were the only ones. Jacob was Jacob, brother was MIB. Haha no need for another name? Brother was MIB? They called him MIB? Why would Allison Janney have kept the Jacob name if they were the only 3 and could just always refer to "your brother"? I'm sorry but it's just so grasping and lame. I think you missed my point. What I'm saying is, baby 1 was named "Jacob", and baby 2 was essentially and uninformally named "brother". I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Jacob always refers to MIB as "brother" and MIB always refers to Jacob as "Jacob". The reason the mom kept Jacob's name is because then you'd have two people calling each other "brother" with no name. Having one with a name and one just as "brother" worked fine because it served as his name. Like I said: a) Answers lead to more questions. Science can't explain why a particle, when unobserved, will travel through two slits at once, but when observed it only travels through one slit (quantum mechanics). Similarly, they can't just give an answer to something like that. You can get an idea of how it works, what it does, but not its exact properties/origin b) I think we'll still get more on the light, as I imagine it will be integral to the finale. That's just what I think. So I think we'll get more on the 'what exactly does it do' kinda stuff. |
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Post by blop on May 11, 2010 22:55:38 GMT -5
In response to Darlton saying Smokey was definitely evil after The Candidate, I think that was meant as a 'from this episode' kinda thing. And from that episode, we DID get the impression the Smokey was totally, irredeemably evil. But now, amazingly, we still have a little sympathy for him from this episode, and maybe it's possible he still isn't completely evil. Or maybe the Smoke Monster is, but MIB himself isn't. Ahh, but we DON'T! We never really know when it was that Locke sees the light. In Walkabout, the Smoke Monster approaches him. It's not until the next episode that Locke tells Jack that he "looked into the eye of the island". We assumed it was the smoke monster, but we also knew there was something that happened there we didn't see. I think what happened was Locke was shown/found the cave of light. He took it as a sign, and placed all his faith in the island. The light from the cave should be the same light from the donkey wheel. Locke didn't appear to see the light with the same attitude when he went to turn the wheel. I don't really like the thought of Lost pulling a fast one on us. I'd see it as more them forcing a connection that really isn't there. Showing Locke see the cave back then would have made me accept it in this episode. But the cave is out of no where, so I don't like it. When he was at the donkey wheel, the light was behind a wall. Also, he was severely injured and probably not thinking straight. I think it would be a rather different experience seeing the light shining brightly from a cave, beautiful, watery, grassy, than seeing it in a cold cave, behind a wall, while you're in severe pain. Although, that DOES beg the question: why was the area so cold all of a sudden? What happened to do that? |
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Post by jasonrhodes on May 11, 2010 22:56:52 GMT -5
blop, like I said, if that's the level of answers you're satisfied with, you're lucky and I'm glad you'll thoroughly enjoy the rest of Lost (even if just by sheer stubborn will!). "He doesn't have a name because he didn't really need a name cause, you know, there was like, the other guy, his brother, who already had a name, so he had the name and the other guy could just be like, the guy without a name, and that was fine, so yeah it's fine for him not to have a name and that's why we don't know his name." -- just doesn't really cut it for me. And as I was saying, it's not all or nothing with explanations. I never expected the mathematical equations, but there's a level of explanation that's expected and so far it hasn't been reached for almost any of the 10 million questions they've gone to such great lengths to raise over 6 years. I'm a huge Lost fan and I've argued and defended Damon and Carlton, their podcast, this blog, etc. for years. I'm not an unbeliever. I'm just losing faith.
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Post by nadzed on May 11, 2010 23:15:41 GMT -5
I feel a bit manipulated; I was led to believe MIB had evil motives, but he is really angry and I understand why he hates Jacob, Jacob took his body and trapped him on the island. MIB has nowhere to go, and his notion of home may be to not exist. Had LOST shown this episode earlier, the question of Jacob’s sincerity would be questioned. Jacob knows why MIB killed their Faux mom, If Jacob is truly dead, he chose to die, he has been messing with MIB the whole time, I wonder if the Island has its own existence and has been drawing people to the island to capture their energy
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ForTheIsland
Junior Member
Everything else is just progress..
Posts: 73
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Post by ForTheIsland on May 11, 2010 23:29:49 GMT -5
*sigh* I loved it.
We've been lead so many directions and here's another turn, maybe MIB isn't pure evil and wanting to escape so he can destroy the world, he wants to "escape" because he was lied to, confused, and somewhat scared. And now, basically, he wants to get off the island just because he was forced to stay.
Surprise! Adam and Eve isn't Rose and Bernard, or Kate/Sawyer, etc..
I love that Jacob hasn't been the all time ruler of the island, he was simply passed the job, and now he's passing it.
I used to want ALL the answers, but then I realized I don't need them. It's fun to learn who Adam and Eve are, that the donkey wheel idea came about from MIB but might not have been completed by him. Maybe he manipulated someone to have it finished.
Maybe the person we've seen as MIB isn't the original MIB, it's just the evil smoke. It has opened many, many more questions, but I don't want LOST to end with everything answered, I want to be able to continue to discuss, deliberate, and theorize for the rest of my life.
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Post by vickyderd on May 11, 2010 23:33:08 GMT -5
Am I the only one that heard this? I could SWEAR to you all that I heard faux Mom refer to MIB as Eli. It was toward the very beginning. I will have to go back and watch again. I don't know if I liked or disliked the episode - but I think the title should have been "Our answers will lead to more questions". I still have WAY too many questions.
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Post by spinaltumor on May 11, 2010 23:44:55 GMT -5
Is the cave of light the same electromagnetic energy from the donkey wheel? Or is it different?
Do humans all have a little electromagnetic energy in them and this something that should be protected lest we turn into smoke monsters?
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"Your questions only lead to more questions". And I think it's very true. If they told us the smoke monster was created through particles in the light coming together in a chemical reaction of some awesome scientific nature, we would wonder where this 'exotic matter' came from. And so on. Not everything can be explained, just like there's many incredible things that we can't explain today, such as quantum stuffs, dark matter, etc.
