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Post by wvkarmatoburn on May 24, 2010 7:34:29 GMT -5
I think everyone is thinking too much. Way too much. It's very straight forward Jack died on The Island after having the "Power" which he passed on to Hurley. Hurley is on the Island, the new Jacob. MIB is dead, killed by Jack. Ben is on the Island, being Richard for Hurley. He still has to find redemption and seemed to start by saying to Hurley that he can do things differently from Jacob. Everyone we saw die in the last 4 episodes is dead. Jin, Sun, Whitmore etc Everyone else Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Frank, Richard, Myles is on the Agera Plane. Jack saw the plane fly over as he died. They got away. The sideways world was an alternate reality which occurred after the bomb. It was a meta physical place where everyone was alive living, possibly all in a "better place". As events on the island came to a point so did events in the Flash Sideways. This had to happen to coincide with events concluding on the island. As that story ended, the Flash Sideways dissolved, all the characters finding redemption, conclusion, etc. They all had to remember about the "real world (the island world)" to let things play out on the Island. The reason Ben was left outside was because he's still on the island finding his conclusion, as opposed to Hurley who finds it and is with the others. All the rest was just great storytelling, Christian, the religious symbols (lovely touch). The Island is still out there, everything happened as we saw it, they didn't all die in the crash ! Hurley and Ben reside there, with Vincent ready for the next people to arrive...... if they ever do. I thought it was awesome, a great ending, but most of the posts I think are trying to read too much into things. Everything Carlton and Damon have said about the finale points to this finale being much simpler than people are making out. An awesome end to an awesome show. This. No dying on the plane. No Hurley and Ben sinking the island. What happened on the island happened. This "alt universe" was the place created especially for them to be able to come together and move on together. Nothing more. When Jack finally comes to terms with his dad's death and their relationship, he "let's go" and the circle is complete. They can "move on".
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Post by heard03 on May 24, 2010 9:36:51 GMT -5
The End was incredible, I loved it. I contend that if you didn't like the finale because you didn't get all the answers you wanted, then you never got the show in the first place. It was all about the characters, not the questions. It was incredibly moving, an excellent conclusion that left you with plenty of stuff to mull over. An info dump to answer any of the multitude of questions left hanging would have ruined the flow of the story.
Michael Giacchino's score was awesome, I can't wait for the release of the Season 6 Soundtrack.
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." - John 15:13
Sit tibi terra levis Jack
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Post by ROCK & ROYALTY™ on May 24, 2010 10:10:33 GMT -5
Wife and I have been discussing. I interpret it as described by spinaltumor. She interprets it as "limbo" from just before the cold open of the pilot, with the various characters having worked out their flaws in flashbacks. Out of those two versions, I definitely like the idea that the island was real, and that only the flash sideways were Jack's idealized "limbo." I'm sure that's the discussion we're supposed to have about the show. I'm still reading this thread, but these are my thoughts exactly. I think the key is in what Christian said. Jack realizes he's dead too. Everyone in the church is also dead. Christian told him that some died before him (ie: boone, shannon, juliet..) and some died long after him...(Those who made it off the island, kate, sawyer, etc). That moment at the church was not a particular moment in time. "There is no now" means that it's not like everyone there died at the same time. I think that too many people missed this point, and think everyone died on the plane crash which was why they were together. This was just their designated meeting place for their group to go to heaven together. Christian "Shephard" was herding them into the Christian belief of heaven. Now Kate's joke makes sense. I can't wait to read the rest of this thread, but I'm at work and getting seriously distracted. I wasn't disappointed one bit. I expected there to be questions, but that's the true foundation of Lost. We are to choose what we want to believe.
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Post by matt on May 24, 2010 10:23:44 GMT -5
Good stuff.
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Post by sildani on May 24, 2010 10:26:23 GMT -5
I've watched the finale twice now, and I'm still struggling with it all to be honest. I get the idea of "off island" being a "waiting room" where they get to right their wrongs so they can pass through to the other side (redemption/purgatory?) when they're all ready to move on. And I get that "on island" was real life where our losties survived flight 815 and learned to adapt and get on with each other in a way that they couldn't pre-815. But, what about the donkey wheel? What about Ben's magic box? What about jughead? What about going back to 1977? What about Hanso & Darma? What about the four-toed statue? What did pressing the button really do? What about the Darma food drops? What about the pregnancies (or lack of) on the island? What was MIB's name? And why was Walt so special? I don't suppose we'll ever really know these answers or a million others - I guess that's why we loved the show so much - because it wasn't handed to us on a plate. I will miss the show and the cast - there will never be anything to replace Lost - it was truly unique with fantastic scripts, superb acting and marvellous vision from the directors and producers. Jay & Jack, hats off to you guys for all of your efforts over the past 5 years - The Lost Podcast has been an integral part of the whole experience and I'll miss you guys as much as I'll miss the show. Namaste! Dave in Peterborough, UK. I feel pretty much like Dave from Peterborough (lovely town by the way, I worked for Johnston Press for a while on contract). This episode, in isolation and perhaps even as part of the entire season six, was indeed brilliant. We get a picture of what's going on in the hearts of this people, and find an ending to their stories that is bittersweet. I understand the happiness lots of people are finding. However, having been a follower of LOST since day 1, I find myself without a conclusion to the story arcs that I felt mattered most in the series (mostly highlighted in seasons one through three). I think from a story telling point of view, the story arc of a mysterious island that can shift through space and time was totally void of a conclusion, in exchange for a focus on the relationship aspects of the main characters. Fine, that's the writers' choice. But I'm disappointed because, well, the best way I can put it is that LOST was like a number of stories all rolled into one, and one of those stories got an ending while the others were left for the imagination for the fan base. And that disappoints me. When my friends told me that the losties jumping in time was akin to the Fonz jumping a shark, I told them to trust the series, that it was really going to bring an answer to these mysteries that drew us in. In the end I feel like I was taken for a ride and my friends were right: the writers had no clue how this was going to end, and they made it up at the beginning of season 4. Unfortunately for me, they went a different route than seasons 1 through 3 suggested. (edited for grammar corrections)
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Post by msbroberts on May 24, 2010 10:50:01 GMT -5
No body did anything really redeeming in the flash sideways, that was done on the island (which is why I think that was purgatory)...I think Christian explain that the sideways was more of a limbo, but part of the after life until they were ready to let go, "This the place you all made together, so you could find another."..."There is no now, here."
I do think this particular view point is Jack's...what he needed to do on the island to move forward: give into faith, believe in himself, and 'give in to his fate,' and to feel his did something worthwhile (save the island, watch his friends leave)....what he needs to 'see' and 'feel' in the sideways, see those he cared most about happy and content and where he thought they should be.
I think if we saw others vantage point it would be different.
ETA: I think it is very significant, that we see Jack in the exact same spot we first saw him,...because that is where he died...in the plane crash.
A friend came up with a good point: The creators, when they started LOST, wanted the island to be purgatory all along. However, once the audience figured it out (probably quicker than the creators expected) they were stuck with how to keep the show going & keep the audience watching (would you watch a show for 6 yrs knowing how it's going to end?). This would explain why the show floundered for seasons 3 & 4 because they were struggling with what to do with the show over all. I think they really wanted a purgatory ending, and the flash sideways were how they accomplished it.
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Post by charliesring on May 24, 2010 11:23:27 GMT -5
sooo david sheppard, doesn't exist? right i mean Locke did tell Jack he has no son.
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Post by lafours on May 24, 2010 11:30:04 GMT -5
One particular issue I have difficulty with with these last few episodes....how is it that Desmond is aware of his "limbo" existence? He tells Jack to come with him to this place on the island. yet that "place" doesn't exist in the physical sense, though he doesn't realize that, cause after he pulled the "cork" out he didn't just leave. I may go cross eyed trying to put together some of these pieces.
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Post by cucumberjones on May 24, 2010 11:34:14 GMT -5
Can I just say I thought it was terrible? I spent 6 years of my life dedicated to this show, never missed an original airing, listened to three podcasts, re-watched over and over, and right now, I feel like I've wasted my time. I don't even GET the end! Honestly, if it took you 6 years to realize you've wasted your time, I don't see any scenario in which you would have liked the finale. Of course you wasted your time--that's what life is all about. If 150 consecutive minutes can ruin 6 years of good times, I think your issues may go beyond what the finale was. I think that everyone who hated it hated it for one of 5 reasons: 1. They didn't get enough answers, which are irrelevant and isn't what the show is about. 2. They didn't understand it, which is strange because I felt it was made explicitly clear. Sure, there's wiggle room for interpretation, but essentially we were told the basic fundamentals. 3. They hated the idea of what the flashsideways was and wanted it to be something else, which is a shame because I thought it was excellent storytelling, and a great, fitting ending to the show. 4. They just don't want the show to be over with yet, which I can side with, but I still think the final episode was the best episode. 5. Like ktrip, they were expecting something magical to happen to justify 6 years of entertainment, instead of taking the show for what it was. I'm not here to debate whether you liked it or not. I don't care if anyone here does or doesn't like it, because that doesn't affect me. I'd just like the haters to be more open minded and have the ability to see how truly great the finale was, both as an end to this great show and as a stand-alone episode inside of this show. I just hope that you all can appreciate the finale episode for what it was, instead of chastising it for what it wasn't, or what you think it should have been.
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Post by msbroberts on May 24, 2010 11:42:47 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I realize if you accept that this is Jack's story, his purgatory/redemption/moving on, the more some of the questions are answered...like why were some people not at the church (Miles, Daniel, etc) was the people there were the people he 'choose' to go into the afterlife with. For example, Miles would be significant to Sawyer, their time together on the island as 'security' and their mirror life in the sideways, so he would be present when James 'moved on'...but he just didn't hold as much significance to Jack.
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kuhbr
New Member
Posts: 40
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Post by kuhbr on May 24, 2010 11:57:13 GMT -5
2. They didn't understand it, which is strange because I felt it was made explicitly clear. Sure, there's wiggle room for interpretation, but essentially we were told the basic fundamentals. From reading articles and blogs and other message boards and even posts in this thread I think this is the major issue people are having. And like you I thought they made it completely clear what was going on. But there still seem to be a lot of people out there that think the whole show was purgatory, that they died in the plane crash. If the direct exposition by Christian Shephard wasn't enough to explain that the island and all that really did happen you also had conversations that hint at it. Like Ben and Hurley talking about being number 1 and 2, and Ben apologizing to Locke for killing him. Surely no one thinks he was apologizing for killing someone who was already dead, lol. So that really happened, he really did kill him in life. Just not getting why people are having such a hard time with it.
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Post by msbroberts on May 24, 2010 12:15:06 GMT -5
2. They didn't understand it, which is strange because I felt it was made explicitly clear. Sure, there's wiggle room for interpretation, but essentially we were told the basic fundamentals. From reading articles and blogs and other message boards and even posts in this thread I think this is the major issue people are having. And like you I thought they made it completely clear what was going on. But there still seem to be a lot of people out there that think the whole show was purgatory, that they died in the plane crash. If the direct exposition by Christian Shephard wasn't enough to explain that the island and all that really did happen you also had conversations that hint at it. Like Ben and Hurley talking about being number 1 and 2, and Ben apologizing to Locke for killing him. Surely no one thinks he was apologizing for killing someone who was already dead, lol. So that really happened, he really did kill him in life. Just not getting why people are having such a hard time with it. It is not about 'not getting it' ...it is just that I don't agree...I do think everything is purgatory, that Jack died on the spot, in the plane crash...but... It's all real to Jack...that's what Christian said to Jack, "yeah, I'm real, you're real, everything that's ever happened to you is real..." To me that means, on what ever 'plane' Jack experienced what he did up until the point, be it the island or in the sideways, it was all needed for Jack to move on.
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Post by sildani on May 24, 2010 12:20:46 GMT -5
I think we're going to get a unifying physics theory of "everything" before we get a unifying theory as to what really went on in LOST, beyond being thoroughly entertained for many years. (edited for grammar)
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Post by wvkarmatoburn on May 24, 2010 12:30:56 GMT -5
Just not getting why people are having such a hard time with it. Overanalyzing? Unwillingness? Stubbornness? Dyslexia? ....er I mean ?aixelsyD
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Post by ttscott on May 24, 2010 13:12:05 GMT -5
I thought the finale was AWESOME! I cried so many times I lost count. I agree with jacksonjessop's post - listen to the dialogue and it's not that hard to figure out. They didn't die in the plane crash, or else they wouldn't have all those memories of everything that happened on the island, AFTER the plane crash. The Oceanic six were rescued, then they went back, Jack saved the island. I'm okay with not getting everything answered. I think everything we saw happen on and off the island the last six seasons DID HAPPEN. But everyone has to die sometime and I thought it was fitting they all got to be together one last time before moving on. That's just my theory.
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