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Post by blop on Apr 6, 2010 23:42:47 GMT -5
I saw a good point on another forum: maybe Eloise is so adamant about Desmond not upsetting the flashsideways (or at least that's what seems to be the case) because Faraday is alive and well in this timeline, and she doesn't want that to change.
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Post by spinaltumor on Apr 6, 2010 23:55:35 GMT -5
But it'd be odd for Eloise to overreact so much to Desmond specifically wanting to meet Penny.
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Post by jacksloststepkid on Apr 7, 2010 0:34:04 GMT -5
WOW... i believe this has to confirm my theory that we saw The Sideways before in The Constant and Flashes Before Your Eyes, and that indeed Desmond can cross between them. I can't wait to learn more! I totally don't agree this is true. If this was true then Desmond would not have been with Penny in his flashback to the past where he wakes up with red paint all over him. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying? That Desmond's trip when he turned the failsafe was to the sideways timeline? |
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Post by jacksloststepkid on Apr 7, 2010 0:42:00 GMT -5
Just a personal theory - uninformed by any spoilers. I think that on the island Desmond has the ability to see the future just like he did the last time he was there before leaving and getting sick. Widmore is bringing him back so he has the advantage through Desmond to beat MIB. JLSK Totally am convinced of this now. Desmond is compliant with Widmore because he can see the future. He knows complying = going with Sayid. Also, I think I had it backwards. The sideways are a result of the blast, the current on island story is what happens when the 815ers become aware of the island timeline and work to change their current timeline. What we are seeing on-island is the real final story. Also, it is clear that some people like Eloise somehow sit outside the timelines in some form and are aware of what is going on. Perhaps by being on the island during the hydrogen bomb explosion, but not at ground zero, leaves them in some in between state where they are aware of both timelines... I like the idea that Eloise is adamant about Desmond not acting because she wants Faraday to live. I think it is probably more than that. I think the Eloise we see at the hospital telling Penny she doesn't know what is going to come next is one who is after the one we saw at the concert. She was working in both timelines to get things to the point where they are now on the island. JLSK |
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Post by spinaltumor on Apr 7, 2010 8:51:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure I entirely get what you mean when you say you have it backwards, JLSK? Like...the on-Island stuff is the epilogue? Then how do the sideways correlate with the rest of the Island happenings before the blast?
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Post by Indy Andy on Apr 7, 2010 10:44:29 GMT -5
There are two distinct timelines going with two sets of each character, and on Island and a sideways version, except for Desmond, whom there is only one of, and he keeps jumping back and forth between the two story lines.
Also. Did Desmond looke oddly brain washed, and a non-emotional droid when he went off with Sayid? Now there are two of them that 'feel nothing'?
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Post by Indy Andy on Apr 7, 2010 10:45:17 GMT -5
and from the way everyone was acting around her, I expected Eloise Hawking to rip Desmond a new butthole. She was supposed to be scarier, methinks.
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Post by spinaltumor on Apr 7, 2010 11:57:22 GMT -5
There has to be two Desmonds too, though. Since he's living two very separate lives...?
I thought the same thing about Eloise. Like...they acted like this concert was a huge deal, but no one really seemed to care that Charlie wouldn't be there.
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Post by wyozach on Apr 7, 2010 12:01:15 GMT -5
My theory on why Eloise seems to know much more than everyone else:
The folks on the Sideways flashes are split consciousnesses of those on the Island timeline. Some event (possibly Jughead) split them off into a new reality. When the sideways folk are confronted by someone with whom they have a strong emotional attachment (their Constant) they "wake up" to their island life. Elosie "woke up" when Daniel was born. Daniel "woke up" when he saw Charlotte. Kate had a flirt with "waking up" when she saw Jack at the airport. Sawyer will be shown to have "woken up" when he collared Kate or meets up with Juliet. Desmond "woke up" when he touched Penny. Charlie "woke up" or started to when he caught a vision of Claire. Desmond's job will now be to reunite the candidates with their Constants thus waking them up in both timelines and sacrificing himself to preserve the island timeline. That's my theory and consider me stuck to it.
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Post by spinaltumor on Apr 7, 2010 12:05:16 GMT -5
I like the thought of Eloise becoming aware through Daniel.
It's inconsistent, though. Charlie and Desmond "flashed" through the result of a near-death experience. No one else needed that. Daniel saw Charlotte, but felt more of what sounds like deja vu. He then only had a dream that made him write down the physics stuff.
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Post by wyozach on Apr 7, 2010 12:08:25 GMT -5
Yeah, so maybe the near-death experience implements a deja-vu and physical contact does the rest.
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Post by jacksloststepkid on Apr 7, 2010 16:04:27 GMT -5
So, I think that what is happening in the sideways is directly what happened after the Hydrogen bomb went off.
Think of it as one big long string of time and take Jack as an example of a person living along that string.
1. Everything we've seen on the show happens up until the Bomb. 815 crashes, Jack is on the island, taken by others, gets off island, crashes back on, time travels back 30 years (note that there are two Jack's now - one off island as a boy, one on island), then sets off the bomb.
2. Bomb goes off. A big change happens from the original timeline. Suddenly everything changes on the island. But Jack as a boy still exists.
3. Jack grows up and because of the changes due to the bomb, his life is slightly different as he grows up, the Jack we see in the sideways.
4. The problem is that there is a parallel timeline that happened in #1 above where Jack was different and crashed. I think there is a thin veil between these two timelines and a person's conscious memory of them both. Strong emotional events that create a parallel situation that happened in both timelines cause a person to be able to see through that veil. Examples - Charlie almost dying, Charlie seeing Claire, Desmond seeing Charlie drowning with his hand revealing not Penny's boat, Desmond being exposed to a huge amount of magnetic energy, Desmond touching Penny again, Faraday seeing Charlotte, etc.
There are older people, like Eloise or Widmore, that have been living with this parallel timelines as adults far longer. They were on the island when the bomb went off and did not exist as "two people" at that point. They still existed in both timelines after the bomb - we know what Widmore and Eloise were like in the timeline #1 above. They have had a much longer time as adults to realize there are two timelines going on and understand what caused it, etc. It is probably even a two way street, where the timeline #1 Eloise is also aware of the post-bomb Eloise.
I think what will happen next is that Desmond will get all the 815 players he can to be able to see past the veil, realizing that there was another life they experienced there.
What happens at that point, I am not sure, but perhaps they have some way to somehow take back to the bomb from happening, which then results in the on-island story we are now seeing in season 6...
I could see the finale being that the off-island 815ers making the decision whether or not to counteract the bomb, while we see the on-island 815ers resolve out the war and live their lives forward.
The thing I have a hard time with is that Sawyer and Faraday and Claire lost their loved ones in the timeline #1 and why would they want to counteract the bomb if it means their loved ones would then be dead...
One additional thought I had is that at #2 above, perhaps older Jack is then sent forward in time - all of those from 2007 living in 1977 are sent forward and that is what we are seeing on island right now - except that they were sent forward to an island where the bomb did not go off... maybe because of the future actions of the sideways 815ers??? (note sure...)
JLSK
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Post by spinaltumor on Apr 7, 2010 16:38:55 GMT -5
I don't quite get how the bomb going off made duplicates of Widmore, Eloise, etc?
Jack and the others present at the time of the bomb going off I can get. But uh...?
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Post by noelfiser on Apr 7, 2010 18:12:25 GMT -5
Nice podcast this week, fellas. I really do like your (and others') theory of Eloise kind of "running" the sideways timeline, or at least having some control based on her timeline-independent knowledge. First off, like you said, she's always the one who knows what's going on in these timelines that jump away from our original Losties. And her chicken-egg raising of Daniel to cause the bomb to happen, causing the new timeline, etc. But there's also a *very* literary conceit here that your discussion made me think of: when we see Eloise in both Desmond flashes, what's she doing? First she's running an antique shop, with clocks everywhere. So she's in control of time, or at least an expert on it. In "Happily" she's *planning a party*!! How is that not exactly what's about to happen on the Island? Maybe not a formal social gathering, but the description of a party where rock-meets-classical is exactly the kind of party the Island is about to have: peanut butter and chocolate, destiny and free will, etc. Not only that but she tells Desmond that he's early for the "party"--or in this case early to find Penny, which Eloise knows will start a cascade of events. Who else is talking about timelines and acting earlier than expected? Widmore back on the Island! So there seems to be a connection between these two across timelines. In Original Timeline, Charles is the mover and shaker, whereas Eloise is more muted and spends her time after leaving the Island concentrating on making Daniel into what he will become. In the Sideways Timeline, it is Eloise who is in charge of Charles (no Scott Baio here!); he reports to and fears her wrath over the party being affected by the lack of Driveshaft. Anyway, great show, great podcast. Really got me thinking--and I think the writers laid a lot of the final groundwork, as we can tell from all of our fevered discussion.  |
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Post by faradaystie on Apr 7, 2010 18:14:23 GMT -5
I thought the same thing about Eloise. Like...they acted like this concert was a huge deal, but no one really seemed to care that Charlie wouldn't be there.[/quote] I think the point made by Eloise was that the 'rock' portion of the concert wasn't as important as the classical music...like it was an 'experiment-in-music' by Daniel and she would still raise money for the benefit regardless. Plus Desmond is Daniel's constant and now all-is-well in his world-----it's all coming together because of "what he did". Maybe beyond my expectations, they'll connect the science with the religion and make it work out in THE END ! Sure hope so |
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