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Post by Colleen on Jun 19, 2008 20:36:06 GMT -5
hahahahaha exalt for making me crack up out loud! |
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Post by The Hybrid on Jun 20, 2008 0:14:30 GMT -5
A couple of things that Jay and Jack and Clybriff said struck a note of concern for me. Clybriff admitted that the "seduction community" is not just a social network but a way for people to make money. I'm figuring that the people who are deemed successful (whether they themselves have decided that or others have bestowed the honor I don't know) can then impart information that is valuable if some $$ is forked over. I admit I am biased towards being skeptical of anyone and anything that offers "Answers" to the most common of questions from "How do I chat up women" to "what am I doing with my life". Jay and Jack mentioned cults (though they were probably just joshing around) but honestly it was exactly what I thought of when all that specialized lingo kept pouring out. Exclusivity via constructed terminology is a basic part of a cultish type of "group think". If he wants to impart information about how to be more confident around women I don't think that's a terrible thing....... But it is when he starts spouting the "terminology" that an otherwise normal discussion devolves into sounding like calculated tactical maneuvers and seeming sinister. What I guess I'm not getting is why Clybriff needs to try so hard-- what is he really looking to be? Obviously there is some esteem he gives to his mysteriously named cohorts (which honestly makes it sound like a D+D game) but I have this nagging suspicion that he's the one being played, especially if he's shelling out cash for this "system"-- Which, Cliff, I really hope you're not. I worry a little when your good friends are saying you aren't sounding like yourself as they did on the podcast. I know I'm extrapolating like crazy. Is there some data on the success rate of these methods and what success even means? This is probably way more nerdy than it needed to be. Success is different for every person. The facts are, some want another notch in the bedpost, some want to have a girl friend, some want to find a wife, so want just to be loved. I don't know what I want from this yet. You can find some success rates if you go to the Attraction forums and look in field reports, also, you can search youtube for Mystery and get watch a lot of his stuff. You know, my mind's fried right now. I can think of a thousand was to respond, but i'll just say that don't rag on D+D like, that game was cool and you know it too! That's it! i'm going to challenge you to D+D, haha.. seriously, when guys firgure out women, they generally don't like it. Nerdy, being played, arn't sounding like yourself, cultish group think, yikes! Those are called tests. A woman must test a man in order to see his integrity. Now, don't get me wrong, i think you see me as having good mind and foundation, it's cool to see that you stick up for what you believe in. Respect. it's hard to find someone with a good energy when communicating on the forums. It's cool that you even took the time to comment on the segment, i appreciate that. i even laughed a little bit when i saw you wrote Clybriff, clever... The point of all this is for guys to better themselves. What happens is that when a man becomes successful with women, the guys gain the confidence and have a feeling of acceptance, from there an after effect filters down to their job's their life, and all the other little aspects of their lives. There are men who follow women to the end of the earth, even if they knkow that the women don't like them! Why?! That's for a later discussion. Night! -Hybrid |
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Post by greatmanalive on Jun 20, 2008 21:12:54 GMT -5
Hybrid,
Can we get the story of how you came to be a pick up artist and how you found this social group of pick up artists?
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CarcinoGenny
New Member
desperate straits and disparate locations
Posts: 48
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Post by CarcinoGenny on Jun 21, 2008 13:26:56 GMT -5
yeah those weren't "tests"--- they were "red flags" that conform to the checklist of cults and other cult like groups..
Now this "community"doesn't seem to be on any kind of watch list in that way, and maybe I'm overreacting to its presumed power, and to your involvement and possible impressionability.
here's what I've dissected so far:
They seem to use scientific and pseudo scientific ideas to back up their claims, and have some lengthy history of seduction which may or may not be factual.
The whole terminology thing that I mentioned before which is partly for exclusivity and partly to obfuscate the fact that they're actually saying normal stuff.
They have extraordinarily detailed lists of behaviors and attitudes that eventually just cover every single sort of behavior one could have towards another person "touch/don't touch", "talk/don't talk" "seem indifferent/seem interested" "be yourself/ don't be yourself"etc.
So basically try everything, systematically. Care enough to attend this seminar, buy this book, and dvd set but in the end, don't care.
I don't think that the "scam" is how to pick up women but how to get men who have less confidence to buy (literally) into the idea that these other guys actually have the answers.
As for D+D--I've never actually played it, I guess I was imagining myself as someone else enough on my own while growing up...but I did think those dice were cool. And the term "Chaotic Neutral".
But it's difficult to take the "seduction community" seriously with those names. Like "Mystery" (to which I can't help adding "wrapped in an enigma!") It all ends up sounding pretentious.
Why did you pick "Hybrid", for instance?
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CarcinoGenny
New Member
desperate straits and disparate locations
Posts: 48
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Post by CarcinoGenny on Jun 21, 2008 13:33:42 GMT -5
hahahahaha exalt for making me crack up out loud! Thanks Colleen! I hope he's not too insulted. There was too much back and forth between both names for me to handle. |
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CarcinoGenny
New Member
desperate straits and disparate locations
Posts: 48
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Post by CarcinoGenny on Jun 22, 2008 1:12:48 GMT -5
I guess this should have been moved to the right NWAPUA forum, instead of continued here. sorry.
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Post by thebeatlesremain on Jun 22, 2008 8:46:56 GMT -5
Okay, see I've been a long listener of J&J and I've heard Cliff before, and to be honest I don't understand where all this controversy is coming from, I mean, he's made his point, he's obviously not about one nighters are anything like that. Personally, I know what he's trying to say: It's all about self-esteem, it's about making a guy feel good about himself and develop confidence. Beautiful girls can be extremely intimidating, but his "society" is about getting the courage to develop a relationship (friends or more) with her and not be afraid to approach her.
I think people are over-reacting.
Got your back "Clybriff"
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Post by The Hybrid on Jun 23, 2008 18:05:44 GMT -5
Haha, lot of big words in there, it shows your intelligent, that's cool. Though you totally made a D+D reference and didn't ever play?! oh my, i don't know if we can talk anymore..  Back to the topic. I think you hit some very good points about the community. Since it is a money making business, it does capture the attention of those guys who want to get better with women. But before even their action occurs with spending the money, first.. that guy... had to make a decision in his life. He had to think, "you know.. i'm not really good with women, i want to be better at it" Now the process to go about learning how to get women can take several different paths. The path less traveled in the community is the one that i'm talking about. it's about bettering yourself and becoming an interesting, thoughtful, social, human being in the world. The path that most guys take is the one where their sole goal is to get women. The guys that just go out there and get women don't understand what the seduction community is all about. Name's like Mystery, Style, and Matador, are used to help protect the guys that get into this stuff by separating their social lives and their professional, personal, lives. There are guys out there that sacrifices everything just to do this stuff. This is all about enhancing your life, not defining it. For me, Hybrid was giving to me by Baron, a mentor of mine. I remember when they mentioned it because I was like sure, whatever, i'll be Hybrid. But then I liked the name because it fits my personality of who I was before being PUA. I took my experiences and incorporated it into my life. I'm essentially a hybrid of everyone I've met, interacted with, and the events that happened in my life. Which always bothered me a little bit because i didn't know who I was.. what I wanted to be, and who i wanted to become. I have a solid ground to stand on now, and from the looks of things, it can only get better. The name can be part of a bigger picture with that person, or it can be just a name to protect one's identity. The point is what is the name going to be used for. Is it going to be used as a benefit, or not. What it comes down to is who you want to be and how you want to live your life. I want to live my life at it's fullest potential, I also want to be in complete control of it. In order to change the way that I approach the world, there needs to be a person that I can transform into. But now i've incorporated that form into my personality and therefore i'm more confident, i'm self aware, my health is better, my job is better, and all aspect of my life are increasing because I can change who I was, without sacrificing who I am. It's this balance that the Seductioin Community needs. What it should really be called is Getting your life Handled. As, the name of my blog would suggest. |
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Post by monsterjester on Jun 24, 2008 14:45:11 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just sleazy, but jeez--not everybody believes in fate/has good luck/can communicate well with the opposite sex. Tips on how to do that last one better are not creepy or immoral. What a bunch of prudes!
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Post by Redsox on Jun 24, 2008 14:50:32 GMT -5
i think its more a question of motives that has everyone in a "tizy" not building confidence or communication skills after all theres always therapy for that.  |
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Post by Colleen on Jun 24, 2008 15:53:25 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just sleazy, but jeez--not everybody believes in fate/has good luck/can communicate well with the opposite sex. Tips on how to do that last one better are not creepy or immoral. What a bunch of prudes! I believe in fate, even with the PUA stuff (though I don't think it's conventional or the most romantic way). If you meet a girl or guy while you're "gaming" and you hit it off and blah blah blah, then that was your whole meaning/purpose for being at that place, saying "hi" or "opening" that person at that particular time But then again, I'm a girl, so I have the ability to put the chick flick "fate" twist on basically anything |
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Post by thebeatlesremain on Jun 24, 2008 16:32:31 GMT -5
I agree with Colleen, I mean when Clybriff is "gaming" it's not about have certain "relations  " with a girl it's about trying to meet someone and start a friend relationship with and what he's learned could help him find his life partner (aww how romantic I am) and it's just about making him happy. I back him up 100% I believe in faith as well, there is no such thing as coincidence only the illusion of coincidence (I can't take credit for that quote it came from V For Vendetta) ;D |
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Post by monsterjester on Jun 25, 2008 5:42:28 GMT -5
The way I see it, what we're labling "gaming" is just peoples' inept ways of trying to express interest in one another with the purpose of finding a mate. To some people this comes naturally (Warm Taffy). To others, it's debilitating. To suggest that therapy is the answer for all individuals is neither funny nor clever; many cannot afford and do not necessarily trust the modern theories that comprise "therapy." I only get so defensive about this because all I've ever wanted is a mate, a single, faithful woman to whom I'm attracted and who is attracted to me, and believe me, it's far more difficult to find than the less socially adept might thing. And it's not just about sex by a long shot; to find such an individual, you have to put yourself out there, the real you, not the babbling, hormone riddled moron you turn into around a person you really like. So "pick up" techniques might help some who are truly insecure. I'm insecure, but I've made peace with who I am and just put myself out there all I can and hope someday a woman will find a person like me attractive. I enjoy the segment for its insights, and might pick up a tip or two, but I'm certainly never going to pretend to be someone or something I'm not for the sake of attracting women; but if you listen to Cliff, that's what he's getting at. It's about expressing who you really are to the broadest possible amount of people to increase your odds of connecting with individuals who are attracted to and appreciate whatever that person is. And I think I'll stop railing here and go out.
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Post by The Hybrid on Jun 25, 2008 15:44:24 GMT -5
The way I see it, what we're labling "gaming" is just peoples' inept ways of trying to express interest in one another with the purpose of finding a mate. To some people this comes naturally (Warm Taffy). To others, it's debilitating. To suggest that therapy is the answer for all individuals is neither funny nor clever; many cannot afford and do not necessarily trust the modern theories that comprise "therapy." I only get so defensive about this because all I've ever wanted is a mate, a single, faithful woman to whom I'm attracted and who is attracted to me, and believe me, it's far more difficult to find than the less socially adept might thing. And it's not just about sex by a long shot; to find such an individual, you have to put yourself out there, the real you, not the babbling, hormone riddled moron you turn into around a person you really like. So "pick up" techniques might help some who are truly insecure. I'm insecure, but I've made peace with who I am and just put myself out there all I can and hope someday a woman will find a person like me attractive. I enjoy the segment for its insights, and might pick up a tip or two, but I'm certainly never going to pretend to be someone or something I'm not for the sake of attracting women; but if you listen to Cliff, that's what he's getting at. It's about expressing who you really are to the broadest possible amount of people to increase your odds of connecting with individuals who are attracted to and appreciate whatever that person is. And I think I'll stop railing here and go out. I think you're on to something here that i've heard, but let me clarify some things. It's very honorable for you to want a woman who likes or loves you for who you are. But what you also have to realize is that women have alot of options, so they aren't going to spend the time to get to know you unless you demonstrate that you're a guy who is unique and different than all the other guys she's met. Having a solid foundation in your identity makes you unique, and nobody else in the world has the same memories and experiences you do. But you can't get to know a woman until she's attracted to you, therefor you have to generate attraction in a woman so she'll want to get to know you better. How you generate attraction is something that we'll get into during the length of the podcast. You don't have to be someone else, we just need to adjust your perception about how men and women interactions work. That way you can find somebody that truly appreciates who you are as a person. |
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Post by Stephanie on Jun 25, 2008 17:11:32 GMT -5
I'm too lazy to read through all these pages but the reason I think for all this Hybrid Controversy is because not everyone gets Cliff's dry sense of humor.
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" with a girl it's about trying to meet someone and start a friend relationship with and what he's learned could help him find his life partner (aww how romantic I am) and it's just about making him happy.