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Post by Steve on Jun 11, 2008 21:02:52 GMT -5
I'm sure there will be segments dedicated for females. But even then, Jay and Jack are guys, so it makes sense that they have a segment geared towards guys. Can't you skip ahead anyways if you don't want to listen?
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Post by michael kirschner on Jun 11, 2008 21:08:52 GMT -5
maybe colleen will do the female segment, if shes willing of course not to put her on the spot or anything
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Post by ceciliatesdahl on Jun 11, 2008 21:40:56 GMT -5
I'm sure there will be segments dedicated for females. But even then, Jay and Jack are guys, so it makes sense that they have a segment geared towards guys. Can't you skip ahead anyways if you don't want to listen? Yes I can, and I said I would in my first post. |
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Post by logcarrier1 on Jun 11, 2008 22:46:13 GMT -5
Didn't anyone watch the TV show? Maybe I just have too much free time...
I thought the idea was to get guys to take that frightening first step towards asking women out. The Hybrid's first piece of advice was to practice saying hi. Completely harmless and not remotely sleazy! Obvious advice? You might think so, but who knows how many times I've struggled to get that out when attempting to speak to a woman! My vote is to keep the Hybrid's segment!
If people find this offensive, what will they think of Warm Taffy?!?!?! (love that segment also)
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Post by Steve on Jun 11, 2008 23:18:25 GMT -5
If people find this offensive, what will they think of Warm Taffy?!?!?! (love that segment also) Hahaha, that was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read this thread. |
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Post by ceciliatesdahl on Jun 12, 2008 5:56:36 GMT -5
Didn't anyone watch the TV show? Maybe I just have too much free time... I thought the idea was to get guys to take that frightening first step towards asking women out. The Hybrid's first piece of advice was to practice saying hi. Completely harmless and not remotely sleazy! Obvious advice? You might think so, but who knows how many times I've struggled to get that out when attempting to speak to a woman! My vote is to keep the Hybrid's segment! If people find this offensive, what will they think of Warm Taffy?!?!?! (love that segment also) I don't speak for everyone, but i do want to make it clear that I didn't find this segment offensive. All I was trying to say was that it was geared towards men. Something no can deny. I have now found out that its only going to be aired on Mondays which is better then every episode. The only reason I started this was because I feel that have such a long segment,even on Mondays, only for men, alienates the female audience. I don't have anything against Hybrid, or Jay and Jack. And thats the last thing I have to say on the matter. |
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Post by kirah815 on Jun 12, 2008 13:02:57 GMT -5
Didn't anyone watch the TV show? Maybe I just have too much free time... I thought the idea was to get guys to take that frightening first step towards asking women out. The Hybrid's first piece of advice was to practice saying hi. Completely harmless and not remotely sleazy! Obvious advice? You might think so, but who knows how many times I've struggled to get that out when attempting to speak to a woman! My vote is to keep the Hybrid's segment! If people find this offensive, what will they think of Warm Taffy?!?!?! (love that segment also) Look, I want to clarify myself. I was the person that used the term sleazy. I admitted that it may have been to harsh in the direction of Clif/the Hybrid but I still maintain my dislike of the whole "seduction community." I didn't watch the tv show regularly but I watched about half an episode in which the "ultimate challenge" was to pick up a stripper. The "pick up artist," (or PUA in seduction lingo) known as Mystery is, IMO, a really weird and creepy guy. Just do a you tube search for any of this stuff, "seduction community," or,"the mystery method," and you'll immediately get what the whole thing is about. Maybe I'm a prude, but I find the "hook-up" culture to be unappealing. And ultimately after all the mumbo jumbo about "self-confidence," the seduction community is a subculture that, generally speaking, labels women as things and conquests to be gained in a competition. The techniques play on women's insecurities and usually involve massively pre-scripted conversations by the men. Again, that seems disingenuous. And to the question of what will I think about "Warm Taffy." I've listened to the married man podcast before and while I didn't tune in every time, I found him to be harmless and funny. Why the difference? Warm Taffy/Dale is being open and honest about what his objective is and intentions are. He may come off as slightly piggish on occasion but he's not trying to hide it behind the guise of "building self confidence." That's what I find creepy about the Hybrid segment. It's sounds harmless and fun but the ultimate goal is the "hook up," and for most people in this so-called community it's about a lifestyle of conquest. At the end of the segment ( I did bother to listen to the whole thing. By the way are we going to have chapters in the future?) the Hybrid was talking about "saying hi," to girls in the mall. He mentioned that in future episodes he would get into "boyfriends and other males." What's that about? Is the next lesson going to be "How to plant seeds of doubt in a relationship?" If I'm walking in the mall with my husband, fiancee or boyfriend and another man looks at me directly and says "hi," in the manner in which the Hybrid recommends I can almost guarantee that my husband (and I suspect most other men) would at the very least snap a dirty look and/or think "WTF?" The excuse to get out of any confrontational aspect of the situation is "hey, I'm just being friendly." But what is really about? What possible motivation could there be for randomly making eye contact and saying hello to a woman that is clearly with another man? Again, dishonesty and deception come to mind. I'm totally done talking about this now. Like the original poster said, I'm not going to stop listening to the show. I love my Jay and Jack, I've got my third t-shirt being delivered as we speak. This segment is offensive to me and I have no problem saying so. If it works for others that's cool too. |
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Post by Uncle Igmar on Jun 12, 2008 13:35:06 GMT -5
Coming soon - in the very Bizzaro World version of the Jay and Jack show - "Uncle Igmar Gets In Touch With His Feminine Side" - A weekly discussion of topics of interest to women - it'll make "the View" seem like "THe Man Show" - stay tuned.
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renney
New Member
Jesus Christ is not a weapon.
Posts: 38
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Post by renney on Jun 12, 2008 14:38:54 GMT -5
the Hybrid was talking about "saying hi," to girls in the mall. He mentioned that in future episodes he would get into "boyfriends and other males." What's that about? Is the next lesson going to be "How to plant seeds of doubt in a relationship?" If I'm walking in the mall with my husband, fiancee or boyfriend and another man looks at me directly and says "hi," in the manner in which the Hybrid recommends I can almost guarantee that my husband (and I suspect most other men) would at the very least snap a dirty look and/or think "WTF?" The excuse to get out of any confrontational aspect of the situation is "hey, I'm just being friendly." But what is really about? What possible motivation could there be for randomly making eye contact and saying hello to a woman that is clearly with another man Any man with half a brain, could see that there is a difference between a random hi and that kind of hi. I KNOW my husband would not tolerate it. I understood that "Hybrid" perhaps doesn't have the wrong motivation, but I hope that there are more guys out there that can appreciate a woman for more than just a notch on the bedpost. Ultimately that is what the goal is for this seduction community. I love The Show. Prehaps Uncle Igmar could do a counterpoint show where he leads a discussion with women on seeing through the pick up artist  |
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Post by Redsox on Jun 12, 2008 23:15:02 GMT -5
i thought it was funny kind of strange but funny
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sofie
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by sofie on Jun 13, 2008 12:26:53 GMT -5
And also: psychology and ways of communication are really interesting topics and pickup artists are related to both. I think it can be interesting for a women to listen to this segment from that point of view, even if she dosnt approve of their techniques.
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Post by markedman on Jun 13, 2008 12:34:39 GMT -5
I'm a guy but I ended up fast forwarding through the segment. I wasn't offended, but not really interested either. It might be more interesting if you had a woman's perspective at the same time. On the other hand, I like hearing Cliff on other subjects, so maybe a weekly segment on various topics might be worth a look. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by The Hybrid on Jun 14, 2008 2:29:01 GMT -5
Hi! Clif/Hybrid here:
Yeah, there's the seduction community, and then there's the VH1 show the Pick Up Artist. With a background in TV and Film, i know that the show was "made" to have conflict and thus might not be a true depiction of what being a PUA is all about. I got the chance to meet Mystery and his wing Matador in person while taking a trip to Florida. The main thing i noticed about Mystery is the fact that he was just a normal guy. My friends Dozer and Baron had crushing marriage break ups. Afterward, they personally thanked him for showing them how to get their lives back in order. They've told me personal that if they hadn't discovered Mystery's method, then they would have nearly ended their lives...
I even personally thanked him for everything that i've accomplished. I think that i got my last Job because of the MM. It gave me confidence and social awareness during my interviews. I've established great relationships with potential clients for my film career.
For the "seduction community" i agree that there are the PUA's out there who all they want is another notch on the bedpost, or to take away a girl from a relationship. I think it's wrong and the wrong way to look into it. That's why I said on the cast, there is the right way and the wrong way to get into this world.
I read a book called, "The Game" by Neil Strass, who's PUA name is Style in the seduction community. The story goes as a gangster story, it is the rise to power and then a fall back down to the bottom... There is no happy ending. What happened is that guys that Mystery and Style were teaching got into the PUA for the wrong reasons, to just get another notch on the bed post. Most of those guys were called social robots, they lost their identities and who they are. They became "dead" inside and so to did their success with women, it left them unsatisfied.
So i'm trying to paint the community in a positive light, more so the right way to go about the pick up arts. It about getting your life handled. I believe that women want a man who is confident, assertive, powerful, sexy, and true to himself. Without his identity, he is nothing. It is those guys who have lost their identity that gives the community the bad reputation and the connotations that go with it: Sleazy, deceptive, tricking women into bed... etc..
So no worries from me if you don't like the segment. I understand. I'm glad you're still listening to Jay and Jack!
Clif
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CarcinoGenny
New Member
desperate straits and disparate locations
Posts: 48
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Post by CarcinoGenny on Jun 19, 2008 19:49:56 GMT -5
A couple of things that Jay and Jack and Clybriff said struck a note of concern for me.
Clybriff admitted that the "seduction community" is not just a social network but a way for people to make money. I'm figuring that the people who are deemed successful (whether they themselves have decided that or others have bestowed the honor I don't know) can then impart information that is valuable if some $$ is forked over.
I admit I am biased towards being skeptical of anyone and anything that offers "Answers" to the most common of questions from "How do I chat up women" to "what am I doing with my life".
Jay and Jack mentioned cults (though they were probably just joshing around) but honestly it was exactly what I thought of when all that specialized lingo kept pouring out.
Exclusivity via constructed terminology is a basic part of a cultish type of "group think".
If he wants to impart information about how to be more confident around women I don't think that's a terrible thing.......
But it is when he starts spouting the "terminology" that an otherwise normal discussion devolves into sounding like calculated tactical maneuvers and seeming sinister.
What I guess I'm not getting is why Clybriff needs to try so hard-- what is he really looking to be? Obviously there is some esteem he gives to his mysteriously named cohorts (which honestly makes it sound like a D+D game) but I have this nagging suspicion that he's the one being played, especially if he's shelling out cash for this "system"--
Which, Cliff, I really hope you're not.
I worry a little when your good friends are saying you aren't sounding like yourself as they did on the podcast.
I know I'm extrapolating like crazy.
Is there some data on the success rate of these methods and what success even means?
This is probably way more nerdy than it needed to be.
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Post by Colleen on Jun 19, 2008 20:30:22 GMT -5
I'd just like to pipe in one thing:
Cliffy-poo, tell your female PUA friends that if they need to take a class on how to get a guy, I'll save them some more: good ol' fashion T'n'A - and NOT being wasted will go a long way. I'll even prove it to you next weekend.
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