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Post by LockeRulez on May 25, 2010 7:57:48 GMT -5
... some people were not in the church - Miles, Daniel Faraday, Richard, Frank, Michael/Walt. But it makes sense because some people, namely Ben, Charlotte, Miles, Eloise, Daniel Faraday, were not ready to "move on" and never made it to the church. Not everyone is ready to "move on" at the same time. (putting aside moving on from the sideways, I'll only discuss getting to the sideways) I think Frank/Walt didn't need to go to The Sideways because they probably just moved straight on to whatever's next (heaven or whatever). They didn't have the bad-stuff or problems to get over like the Losties. And Michael is stuck on the island. But because The Sideways is "timeless", i guess that implies he can NEVER make up for what he did (for his son!). Yet Ben did way worse (not always with just as good intentions) and gets to The Sideways? |
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Post by jimilla on May 25, 2010 8:29:47 GMT -5
Long time lurker, never poster but I felt it was time.
I didn’t love the final, but I didn’t hate it either. I fall someplace in
the middle. I get the whole ‘this is a character study thing.’ It’s just that for me the Island WAS a character. I really got hooked on this show sometime around “Walk-about.” It was all the Sci-fi stuff that got me hooked. Along the way I really got involved with the characters, cared about them, and wanted to see what happened, but I also really got pulled in by all the Island mystery. Unlike the “Shippers” my best water cooler conversations were not about “Jack and Kate vs. Sawyer and Kate.” It was about the numbers, smoke monster and time travel. So in that sense, I felt a little let down. That being said, the ending I can live with, I did get chocked up at seeing the reunion of all the Losties.
There are something’s that I still am struggling with, and would like some help from someone who maybe has a better understanding.
Aaron. If we buy the premise that the Sideways was a “holding / Purgatory,” where our Losties created to meet after they die, then why was Aaron there as a baby? It seems to me that if “what happened did happen” they Clair would have had the baby, and unless Aaron died as a baby I don’t see how she could have him with her in the Church. Jin and Sun, did not have their baby (at least I didn’t see her), so why Aaron? I know Sun was still pregnant in the Sideways, but again how is that, if she had the baby before she passed away?
Elosie Hawcking (White haired lady). It seems she knew what was going on, her conversations with Desmond throughout, most especially at the concert showed that. She said something to the effect of, “…now that they remember will you take my Son…” or something close to that. So how did she know? The fact that she was there, does that mean she has died as well? And why wouldn’t she want her Son to move on to Heaven?
Jack's Son (and everyone else). If Jack never had a son, (Lock told him in the Sidways) – then who was that. Was that someone else who died, and didn’t have parents? Was he just created for Jack in this ‘holding’ area? Same thing about everyone else. All the Guests at the concert, are they all “real” dead people, or just created for Jack?
Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help out with this stuff.
Special thanks to Jay and Jack, for me; you were as much a part of this show as anything I saw on TV.
Jim
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deejp
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Post by deejp on May 25, 2010 8:33:00 GMT -5
Long time viewer, first time poster on this forum.
I really loved this last episode, even in death, it was quite life affirming.
However, one theory i have is that Jack did not pass on his 'powers' to Hurley. Jacob went through more of a ritual when he passed them onto Jack, for example, there was no blessing of the water which Hurley drank, why would Jacob bother to do it if there is no significance? I think Jack made this decision intentionally, as he didn't want a good friend to feel the burden of looking after the island, as well as the inability to leave the island and the possible millenia he would have to stay there to protect it. I also think that Ben knew this too and that is why he alluded to the fact that Hurley could make his own rules, as he wasn't bound by these 'powers'.
Just a theory, most probably rubbish.
Thanks for 5 years of fantastic entertainment, Jay and Jack, much appreciated.
JP, Glasgow, Scotland, UK (Home to the mighty Glasgow Celtic and Desmond)
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Post by msbroberts on May 25, 2010 8:38:52 GMT -5
That's not necessarily so. Look at Sayid, who lived his whole life thinking he was nothing more than a murderer. That state of mind followed him into death and into the sideways. To the point that his one salvation, Nadia, was put out of his reach. Only when Hurley told him that he was not a murderer did Sayid come to gripes with his life. He was able to realize he could be what he wanted to be, and for whoever he wanted. Like Shannon. In that moment, he proved that he was ready to move on. Yes, that's when he was ready to move on, but that wasn't his redemption, his redemption was taking the bomb and running. Self sacrifice, that was his redemption. |
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Post by spinaltumor on May 25, 2010 9:45:23 GMT -5
But he still had to accept that he could be redeemed. Even if he sacrificed himself, that doesn't mean he felt he was forgiven.
He had to forgive himself to redeem himself.
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Post by msbroberts on May 25, 2010 10:18:09 GMT -5
^^^I agree, that's why I think that both the island and the sideways were part of purgatory (or something similar, depending on what you believe in). The island was redemption and the sideways acceptance.
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Post by channingd on May 25, 2010 10:25:01 GMT -5
""Elosie Hawcking (White haired lady). It seems she knew what was going on, her conversations with Desmond throughout, most especially at the concert showed that. She said something to the effect of, “…now that they remember will you take my Son…” or something close to that. So how did she know? The fact that she was there, does that mean she has died as well? And why wouldn’t she want her Son to move on to Heaven?""
I wondered too about old Eloise. I think she has not let go and she is "stuck" in "limbo or Purgatory" along with Charles. She has still not let go and therefore cannot move on. She is a selfish old woman, who yes is dead, probably for a long time now. She cannot forgive herself for her past and what she did to her son and that's why she is still holding on and doesn't want Daniel to move on. She is aware that it is just a sideways reality and is able to manipulate it for her own pleasure. Until she can let go and give up her evil ways, she will never leave.
Ben is on the road to redemption. He still has to heal his guilt with his past and his daughter and possibly Russo.
The only lingering question I guess is why did it seem in earlier seasons that some people, ie: Ben, always knew what was going to happen. Almost like they had played the scenario out before. They knew exactly where the losties where going to go and what time and what they would do. I really feel that the writers at that point were going to go into another direction but ended up not.
And forgive me if this was ever really answered and I just don't know, but the Numbers? What was the final explanation on that?
Overall, loved it. But who doesn't like the happy ending? At least that's what my massage therapist asks.
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tomy
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Post by tomy on May 25, 2010 10:46:41 GMT -5
Maybe they did meet there. I can't remember. But even so, it was a moment, as opposed to Jack's perception of the relationship of Sayid and Shannon on island. His life on the island was his turning point, when he became the man he ended up being, when he connected with the people he came to love.
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Post by germane on May 25, 2010 12:10:42 GMT -5
Does anyone know when Jay & Jacks final podcast will be available? I can't wait to hear it. Thanks!
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Post by Chris in Miami on May 25, 2010 19:20:07 GMT -5
I gotta say I don't think the FS was Purgatory. It was the last cycle of there "lives". Let me explain. Everyone in the entire world dies and gets reincarnated into themselves in their next lives over and over again. "See you in another life, brother" hints towards this. Every time you relive your life you make slightly better choices ie "It only ends once, everything else is progress". The losties experiences on the island matured them spiritually so in there next life (the flash sideways) they made the best choices they could with what they had, reached their potential, found enlightenment (flashes of previous lives) and moved on to heaven or whatever is beyond this life...
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cboy
New Member
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Post by cboy on May 25, 2010 19:57:00 GMT -5
If you still have season 6 episode 1 on your DVR you HAVE to watch the part where Sawyer goes into the wreckage to get Juilet. As she's dying she says "we should get coffee sometime", "we can go dutch", and "kiss me".
According to Christian the limbo world can last just a nanosecond... in that scene it seems like Juilet lived her entire limbo life in just seconds while Sawyer was holding her as she was dying.
Then Miles read her grave and told Sawyer "it worked" which we now know goes back/forward/sideways (whatever) to the vending machine... "it worked".
I think we all better get going on rewatching season 6 to see what other answers are buried deep in the limbo flashes.
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Post by jacksloststepkid on May 25, 2010 20:42:45 GMT -5
I gotta say I don't think the FS was Purgatory. It was the last cycle of there "lives". Let me explain. Everyone in the entire world dies and gets reincarnated into themselves in their next lives over and over again. "See you in another life, brother" hints towards this. Every time you relive your life you make slightly better choices ie "It only ends once, everything else is progress". The losties experiences on the island matured them spiritually so in there next life (the flash sideways) they made the best choices they could with what they had, reached their potential, found enlightenment (flashes of previous lives) and moved on to heaven or whatever is beyond this life... interesting. Not sure I really buy this, but it could explain some other mysteries. For instance how does Eloise know so much about what will happen in the future in all the early seasons. What if she was already aware of her previous life and the 'cycle' of events that would happen. Perhaps the point where Desmond in the hospital where she says that she no longer knows what will come next is the first time in the cycle where things took a radical departure. In previous cycles Desmond died before making it back to the island allowing Smokey to be killed. Just a thought. JLSK |
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Post by ROCK & ROYALTY™ on May 25, 2010 20:51:28 GMT -5
FINALLY! PROOF that they did NOT die from the Oceanic 815 Crash. So I hope people can stop reading into theories that the wreckage during the credits symbolized everyone dying. latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2010/05/lost-exclusive-abc-sets-the-record-straight-about-the-series-finales-plane-crash-images.htmlI personally believed that Christian Shephard explained it all. They really were survivors of 815 on some crazy island that will have mysteries that will never be explained. And that is completely fine by me. Our world is full of real mysteries. The Bermuda Triangle, Egyptian Pyramids, the Paranormal, Outer space, Area 51, the creation of man, Jimmy Hoffa, Loch Ness Monster, and so on. People are always searching for answers to these great mysteries and there is no one proven answer for any of them. So why should we expect LOST to explain it's great mysteries? I think that most of them were answered this season. At least the ones that were important to the show. I am not a very religious person, but I do like to believe in heaven and there being a place to reunite with all of my loved ones some day. Everyone dies at some point. What happens after that is the biggest mystery of all. It's our faith that gives us hope and resolution. I find the purgatory "sideways" to make sense. I did wonder why some things are different, like Jack having a son with Juliet. I just think they were trying to represent a world where they could all seek redemption. And for Jack with his daddy issues, the best way to solve them would be to have a son whom he could resolve what he didn't with his own father. Most of them seemed to be finding their redemption for the issues that haunted them...Hurley found good luck, Locke found peace with his paralysis, Sawyer became a cop...Kate and Saiyd still were in search of redemption. Probably because it wasn't their time yet. The reunion of Sawyer and Juliet goes to show that when she died in sawyer's arms, she had begun to cross over into the afterlife world, hence the "coffee" remark. She died from her wounds from the fall, not from the blast. Also I wondered why there were no freighter folk in the church. Jack had a relationship with some of them. The non 815 passengers were probably there as the significant others (Penny, Libby). But then I remembered that most of them were "men of science", although I'm not sure where Miles falls. Science or Faith. I can't wait to go back and watch everything all over again. Kinda like after seeing the Sixth Sense you want to go back and see all of the clues that might now make more sense. "More" being the key word. I would never expect or want things to make "complete" sense. I HEART LOST. FOREVER AND ALWAYS. |
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Post by Chris in Miami on May 25, 2010 21:36:48 GMT -5
Let me expand a little. The FS is not what was created by the losties. The Church is. That is the place the created to all meet. That is why it had more then just Christian symbols in it. People like Ben and even Eloise for that matter saw unfinished business they would be leaving behind and were not ready to "move on". For Ben its Rousseau and Alex. For Eloise its Daniel and Charles...
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Denny
Junior Member
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Post by Denny on May 26, 2010 12:12:26 GMT -5
I don't mean to pick things apart - I still like the ending but... this tiny detail has started to bug me: Kate going back means jail for her again doesn't it? She wasn't supposed to leave the state right? And she left the country.
Well I suppose that is part of the after-show beauty. We get to wonder what happened to those who got to live and leave after it was all over.
What would life be like for Richard - wow - that's something I'd like to see. And i'd love to see Hurley and Ben too.
I guess the points some people made about the Shannon vs. Nadia thing kinda make sense. It was still surprising though - a nice surprise - I really liked Shannon's character and was so sad about how she ended up.
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