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Post by cindy on May 24, 2010 20:06:11 GMT -5
I think the finale was excellent!!! I didn't like all the commercials and we had technical difficulties here in Cleveland so they're showing it again on Saturday. One of the many things I thought was interesting is that the island being sunk is part of the 'special' place they created for themselves. Even though they were brought to an island where they received a clean slate and this is where they all met, their 'special' place was based in LA and the special island was underwater. Were the writers trying to tell us that you can change the direction of your life and get a fresh start all you have to do is let go of fear, stop running, believe in yourself, stop seeking revenge, trust others, love others, realize what's done is done and stop looking back? And that you can do all these things without moving to a magical location like the island? +1 to you for your patience! I live in the same market - the story lead the news and the story about technical difficulties had to be continued later due to - you guessed it - technical difficulties. As far as what the writers were going for, I'm not entirely sure. I think they meant the flash-sideways to be a collective coping mechanism for the characters to deal with the trauma caused by the plane crash as well as what went on in their lives prior. With all of the "live together, die alone" going on, it really wasn't a surprise that they all "moved along" together. |
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Post by robertsleep on May 24, 2010 20:25:25 GMT -5
Anyone else get the same effect as I did,
I loved the first 95% of the finale, at first the ending just threw me away, but the more and more I think about it and let it ferment in my head, I begin to see the true genius of it.
I have both thought of, and read from others, several theories and interpretations of the ending, and the true brilliance of the show is that they can all be equally valid.
whatever happened...happened.
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cboy
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Post by cboy on May 24, 2010 20:42:45 GMT -5
We've all spent the last 6 years sharing our theories about this show... why stop now? I think the "flash" when Desmond went to buy the ring and met Eloise Hawking was actually a flash to the limbo world. Nice eh? Thoughts??
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Post by jacksloststepkid on May 24, 2010 21:23:26 GMT -5
From reading articles and blogs and other message boards and even posts in this thread I think this is the major issue people are having. And like you I thought they made it completely clear what was going on. But there still seem to be a lot of people out there that think the whole show was purgatory, that they died in the plane crash. If the direct exposition by Christian Shephard wasn't enough to explain that the island and all that really did happen you also had conversations that hint at it. Like Ben and Hurley talking about being number 1 and 2, and Ben apologizing to Locke for killing him. Surely no one thinks he was apologizing for killing someone who was already dead, lol. So that really happened, he really did kill him in life. Just not getting why people are having such a hard time with it. It is not about 'not getting it' ...it is just that I don't agree...I do think everything is purgatory, that Jack died on the spot, in the plane crash...but... It's all real to Jack...that's what Christian said to Jack, "yeah, I'm real, you're real, everything that's ever happened to you is real..." To me that means, on what ever 'plane' Jack experienced what he did up until the point, be it the island or in the sideways, it was all needed for Jack to move on. So I have to disagree. The purgatory part was only the sideways story. Jack survived the crash, etc. And it was just poetic license that ending is an exact reverse mirror of the beginning. After looking back at it, when you realize that Kate went off island and lived a potentially long full life. When she holds Jack's face and says that she missed him. It has so much more meaning in this context that she may have lived a much longer life missing Jack. Also the ahold sequence with Juliet and Sawyer. That the "it worked" that Juliet says in s6e1 is not that jughead worked but that the vending machine worked. That something was stuck in it and the way to fix the problem was to unplug it and then to plug it back in. Kinda like how to deal with Smokey who was stuck. To unplug the island then plug it back in. I think I will definitely have to rewatch this. I suspect understanding the ending will make many of the scenes in the flash sideways have much more significance. JLSK |
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Post by msbroberts on May 24, 2010 21:55:49 GMT -5
^^^^but the point of purgatory is redemption, to prove you're ready to move on. None of the characters did that in the sideways, all of that was done on island.
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Post by witheyesclosed on May 24, 2010 22:16:51 GMT -5
I agree with the plugging back in. The way she described it lead me to believe when I first saw it that that's what'd they do. Of course this before the final reveal that the sideways was not dealing with the unplugging of the island.
What I have to say is that we've been shown glimpses of this with Desmond, correct? After all, what they all saw was "flashes before their eyes" similar to Desmond back in season 3. Maybe not in the same manner since he was "special" but it's just funny the smile he gave when he told the officer that he wanted the book to be the last thing he read before he died, provided that he knew when he would die.
And to those saying it's a cop out, everything that dealt with death aided in explaining this. Hurley being able to talk to dead people, Ben being told he couldn't go with his mother yet, the whispers, why hurley couldn't talk to Libby, Jack not being able to get over his father, possibly kates transference with Jack and Sawyer as her dad. The list goes on.
The mythology is and will always be the best of any show considering the levels and in the manner they gave us information and allowed us to interact. And I would like to know more. But it wasn't as important as seeing what Jacob told us in the previous episode, the story of those that were flawed and how they needed each other to do something great.
And people say they hated the last 10 minutes. I don't see why. It wasn't expected on my part until all the sorries and see ya laters came out. But it didn't really hit me until it went silent and Jack entered that room. The imagery of every religion just spoke out and said, "this is what life is about." Having the faith and determination to let go. It took Jack the longest. But he did it with the help of all the people that interacted with each other from that flight. He could let go because like he told Rose, "we made it." they all lived together and made it clear they would not die, or at least accept death, alone.
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Post by spinaltumor on May 24, 2010 22:20:17 GMT -5
That's not necessarily so.
Look at Sayid, who lived his whole life thinking he was nothing more than a murderer. That state of mind followed him into death and into the sideways. To the point that his one salvation, Nadia, was put out of his reach. Only when Hurley told him that he was not a murderer did Sayid come to gripes with his life. He was able to realize he could be what he wanted to be, and for whoever he wanted. Like Shannon.
In that moment, he proved that he was ready to move on.
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Post by cucumberjones on May 24, 2010 22:33:05 GMT -5
People, just because somebody got upset is no reason for all of this. I mean, is this picking on people for spelling really worth it? Or even because of whether they liked the episode or not? The producers said that this episode wouldn't be for everyone. I personally enjoyed it, but I'm not going to be mad when somebody says they didn't, no matter how crudely or rudely. Lost was a wonderful show. Some would say from beginning to end, and others from the beginning to the second to last episode. It's a pity that it can't be enjoyed by all, but you can't please everyone. Let's just let everybody have their opinions. Oh, I wasn't lambasting him or hating the episode. I really don't care. But how dare you call anyone who liked the episode dumb when you don't understand basic grammar and spelling--that was my problem. As for Shannon v. Nadia... I didn't get that either. He loved, and grieved over Nadia for years, and on multiple occasions. He knew Shannon for what, a month? And even though he mourned her for what seemed like 3 seasons, it was only days in his time. |
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Post by spinaltumor on May 24, 2010 22:39:00 GMT -5
You could see Nadia as a symbol of Sayid's tortured past. He was always chasing after her as though if he finally caught up to her and she could accept him, then he would be forgiven. He was fine until she died and his need for revenge fueled him back into the man he used to be. In the sideways he had to learn that it wasn't Nadia's forgiveness he needed. He needed to forgive himself. He then felt worthy of being loved by someone else...Shannon.
The "Let's give them a minute" was pushing it, though. But I suppose from Shannon's perspective it probably meant a lot. Sayid was the first person who ever really thought Shannon was worth something.
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Post by broncojeff on May 24, 2010 23:40:49 GMT -5
My first reaction to the finale was that I "liked it"... after sleeping on it & discussing with friends and family I'm solidly in the "loved it" group. One of the things that bothered me at first was the feeling that seasons 2-3 were rendered pointless b/c of the focus on D.I. & "the others" during those seasons. I was failing to realize that there were essentially 2 stories going on...the island & our Losties. Across the Sea helped show that the story of the island is one that continues beyond Hurley & Ben, and the skeletons near the light source show that this has been going on long before Mother. The battle between good & evil is always going on and the island will always need a protector. I kinda wonder after seeing the island break apart into the sea if Hydra island wasn't originally part of the main island. Hydra island may have broken off during one of the past plug pulls.  I was really afraid for a moment that Jack was going to become a new MIB... that would have been tough to stomach. I'm also with some of the other people on the forum & feel that there is a solid argument to be made that the overall LOST story is about Jack & his journey. Sorry for the random thoughts... |
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tomy
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Post by tomy on May 25, 2010 1:17:22 GMT -5
I do think the flash sideways was Jack's limbo, not a general limbo for all the characters. It was his place to realize the fact of his death and come to terms with his life. I think David was the expression of his unfulfilled wish to have a child. As to why Sayid was reunited with Shannon instead of Nadia.......Jack never met Nadia and it was his limbo, with the people he knew.
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Post by swwich on May 25, 2010 3:36:59 GMT -5
I loved the finale. My husband less so. But these are our humble observations and comments about the finale:-
- If the flashsideways are of a spiritual dimension where everyone is dead, then the question is when did everyone die. And did they all live together or died alone. I think the answer was that they all died alone and at different times...even though they all lived together on the island and their time together was the most important time of their lives. For example, Jack, Sayid, Juliet, Sun/Jin all died at different times. But when they died they went to this sideways dimension to sort out their unfufilled dreams/issues/lost love, whatever.
- To us, there were three possibilities of when they all died: (1) when they first crashed [suggested by the wreckage scene at the end of the finale], (2) when the atomic bomb went off, or (3) none of the above.
After mulling it over, options (1) and (2) can be ruled out. This is mainly because when the dead ones in the sideways world flashed back to their other lives, they saw what their lives had been before they died. All of them saw scenes over the last 6 seasons, up to and including the time of and presumably after Hurley and Ben took over the care of the island. Moreover, we never found out whether the atomic bomb actually went off. My guess is that the bomb never went off but only set off another flash, propelling the ones who were flashing through time - Jack, Juliet, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Rose/Bernard, Sayid, Hurley - back to the present.
So, that leaves option 3, which means that everyone eventually died...whenever...and shows up at the sideways world to work out their unresolved issues. Because Christian Sheppard said that "now" had no meaning, then the characters work out their issues in their own ways, without the restraint of time - the time they spend in that world and the time they arrived in that world. Christian also told Jack that "everyone dies sometime kiddo, some before and some long after you" to Jack.
I was initially annoyed that some people were not in the church - Miles, Daniel Faraday, Richard, Frank, Michael/Walt. But it makes sense because some people, namely Ben, Charlotte, Miles, Eloise, Daniel Faraday, were not ready to "move on" and never made it to the church. Not everyone is ready to "move on" at the same time.
The Ajira flight took off and got away from the island save, I assume, although the show left the fate of those on the plane (prob purposefully) vague. I take away from this to mean that they left safely and lived out the rest of their lives off the island, then appeared at the sideways world after they died, whenever that may be. Same goes for Hurley and Ben. Sideway Hurley congratulated Sideway Ben for being a kick ass Number 2, which means that they had lived out their natural lives on the island as the protector of the island. I love that. It means that both eventually died after their turn at protecting the island. It naturally lends itself to the conclusion that someone else then took over the job after Hurley was done. The island lives on, before mother, and then after Hurley. We were just given a glimpse of a fraction of the happenings of the island over time. The plug being inside the cave when mother never when into the cave implies that "mother" was not the original protector of the island. And Hurley would not be the last of its protector either.
- Of course though, not all the questions were answered, as expected. The big one is really what is the island - I am ok with leaving with thought for myself that the island holds the good and evil in all of us. I am also ok with many of the other questions unanswered. For instance, why and when did the Egyptians arrive and influenced the culture of the island, when was the Temple built. And new questions from the final scenes, who built the cave of light and who put the plug there in the first place.
I am not so into the love connections of the characters, but it does complete the story and highlights the deeper meaning that everyone needs their one true love (or in Sayid's case, two true loves...) in order to be fulfilled.
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Post by inkypawprints on May 25, 2010 4:59:55 GMT -5
So I have to disagree. The purgatory part was only the sideways story. Jack survived the crash, etc. And it was just poetic license that ending is an exact reverse mirror of the beginning.
After looking back at it, when you realize that Kate went off island and lived a potentially long full life. When she holds Jack's face and says that she missed him. It has so much more meaning in this context that she may have lived a much longer life missing Jack.
Also the ahold sequence with Juliet and Sawyer. That the "it worked" that Juliet says in s6e1 is not that jughead worked but that the vending machine worked. That something was stuck in it and the way to fix the problem was to unplug it and then to plug it back in. Kinda like how to deal with Smokey who was stuck. To unplug the island then plug it back in.
I think I will definitely have to rewatch this. I suspect understanding the ending will make many of the scenes in the flash sideways have much more significance.
JLSK[/quote]
I loved this episode....it was moving, thought provoking, and I cried like a big baby. I like that they didn't answer everything because, seriously, those are the things that will help keep us talking about long after this week's finale. I agree completely that the sideways was the only "limbo" or "purgatory" and that everything else was real. When I listened to Christian talk to Jack, it was very clear to me the first listen. And usually, I have to listen more than once. LOL And I get that they were finding each other in the limbo world so they could move on together - like they were so important to each other in life that they wouldn't do this big thing in death without each other. Some time yesterday while mulling it all over it hit me about Kate's line about missing Jack and that she likely had a long life after getting off the island too.
Although I got that Juliet was talking about the vending machine in the season opener, I love the parallel between unplugging the machine and unplugging the island....I didn't catch that.
Shannon = Sayid's great love.....not. But, she was significant in that part of his life, within the group that's crossing over together so I guess that's why they are together.
I do love that we get the impression that Ben and Hurley made a great team on the island and that they cared for each other. I could comment all day, but I do have to go to work.
Can't wait to watch he season again with my eyes wide open.
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Post by inkypawprints on May 25, 2010 5:06:05 GMT -5
I was really afraid for a moment that Jack was going to become a new MIB... that would have been tough to stomach. I'm also with some of the other people on the forum & feel that there is a solid argument to be made that the overall LOST story is about Jack & his journey. Sorry for the random thoughts... OMGosh...I was worried for a bit too that Jack was going to become a smoke monster....I was really on the edge of my seat about that and saying "OMG, NO"!!!! |
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Post by inkypawprints on May 25, 2010 5:09:03 GMT -5
I do think the flash sideways was Jack's limbo, not a general limbo for all the characters. It was his place to realize the fact of his death and come to terms with his life. I think David was the expression of his unfulfilled wish to have a child. As to why Sayid was reunited with Shannon instead of Nadia.......Jack never met Nadia and it was his limbo, with the people he knew. I kind of like this...kind of. But, part of me thinks it was limbo for everyone too.....hmm, got me thinking! But, I do think Jack probably met Nadia....when the Oceanic 6 were back in LA - maybe at Hurley's party? Nadia was there with Sayid. |
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