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Post by bruce on Mar 24, 2010 18:17:34 GMT -5
The rules is that you only have one chance to kill either Smokey (MIB/Flocke) or Jacob.
It is you must stab him in the chest and not let him speak to you or it is too late.
Dogan told this to Sayid to slay MIB
MIB told this Richard to slay Jacob
Yet Ben had an indepth conversation with Jacob and was still able to slay him
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Post by blop on Mar 24, 2010 19:11:55 GMT -5
I don't think that's meant to be taken literally. I think it's simply because they're both so persuasive, so as soon as you let one of them speak it's too late, because you'll already be hooked and convinced not to kill them.
What I find more intriguing is that when Jacob was outside the statue, he tried to stop Richard from killing him. But inside the statue it was almost as if he wasn't allowed to lift a finger. Maybe this was part of the rules?
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Post by bruce on Mar 24, 2010 20:48:51 GMT -5
I disagree I think it was meant literally - it was clearly said both times.
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Post by spinaltumor on Mar 24, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Because both sides are obviously manipulative smooth talkers....
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Post by LockeRulez on Mar 24, 2010 21:17:06 GMT -5
agreed, this is not literal. The Knife was never actually intended to kill MIB. Dogen knew it woldn't kill him. I tend to agree that unLocke cannot be killed with a knife (regardless of whether he opens his mouth or not), but somehow Jacob can (regardless of whether he opens his mouth or not). This is definitely a mystery. I think it just comes down to the fact that MIB is all "smoke and mirrors" (pun intended) underneath that form, and so a knife will not hurt him.. While Jacob is still some sort of super powerful human.
I do think Jacob could have stopped Ben if he wanted, but he gave Ben the choice rather than stopping him. I don't think its the rules that he "can't" stop him, because he stopped Richard.
The big question is can MIB really be killed at all, if he's just evil incarnate? I think he can only be contained, and that will be our resolution at the end.
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Post by spinaltumor on Mar 24, 2010 21:19:38 GMT -5
Maybe proving to him that people can be good over evil can defeat him more than just containing him.
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Post by LockeRulez on Mar 24, 2010 21:27:08 GMT -5
true, but how can you ever prove that definitively? There will always be more people, and more temptation.
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Post by spinaltumor on Mar 24, 2010 22:24:55 GMT -5
Well if you prove it once, that shows it can be done.
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Post by warrick123 on Mar 24, 2010 22:55:11 GMT -5
I like the idea with the rules thing, in and out of the statue. Jacob did say to richard, only people i invite in come in. So maybe once your inside, rules dont apply, and so when Ben and Locke were invited in he was able to kill him...
However, on the other side, miles did say that up until the very moment Ben killed him, Jacob was thinking that he wouldnt do it, hoping that he was right, that Ben would end up good. So maybe he just truly thought that Ben wouldnt do it...
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Post by danthew on Mar 25, 2010 1:04:53 GMT -5
Jacob seemed very different to the serene person we've usually seen. He recovered his composure pretty quickly but he seemed quite violent at first. Maybe he was just having a bad day, he had just hit his statue with a boat.
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Post by monsterjester on Mar 25, 2010 1:12:37 GMT -5
Miles didn't say Jacob was thinking Ben wouldn't kill him. He said that right up until Ben stabbed him he "hoped that he was wrong" about him. So he did expect it, just didn't want it, or know for sure Ben would do it.
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Post by LockeRulez on Mar 25, 2010 19:50:32 GMT -5
Well if you prove it once, that shows it can be done. But you can't even prove it once.. they can always be tempted later. Everybody has a price  Even Ben almost proved it when he sacrificed his daughter for the good of the island, and MIB was still able to turn him afterwards. the only way to prove it definitively is if the person dies in the act.. But even then, I guess I just don't see MIB saying "oh yeah, you found 1 person that is all good so i will concede my evil ways"... Jacob seemed very different to the serene person we've usually seen. He recovered his composure pretty quickly but he seemed quite violent at first. Maybe he was just having a bad day, he had just hit his statue with a boat. like i said in another thread, Jacob starts off as a strong character, and since MIB emerged, he has been losing power and seems more dull |
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Post by bruce on Mar 25, 2010 20:32:36 GMT -5
Just because Jacob appears gentle and seems to act kind, his actions are questionable.
He either entices or perhaps forces others to come to an island, in which he contains MIB
Then he and MIB manipulate these people.
Lets not also forget that his interaction with Sayid led to Nadya being hit and killed by a car.
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Post by spinaltumor on Mar 26, 2010 7:58:22 GMT -5
the only way to prove it definitively is if the person dies in the act.. Sacrifice would do it, I'd say. MIL unaware what Juliet recently did? Hmm.... But even then, I guess I just don't see MIB saying "oh yeah, you found 1 person that is all good so i will concede my evil ways"... I'm saying that once his mind reaches the conclusion of "Oh hey, that person did something good for others at the expense of themselves willingly...that's...nice." then he instantly ceases to be or is trapped in a more permanent, non-loophole-y way. His choice to concede or not won't matter. He won't have a choice. |
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Post by LockeRulez on Mar 26, 2010 8:23:59 GMT -5
good theory.. we will see! I find it hard to believe that out of all the people that have died (including Juliet), that none have sacrificed themselves for the good of others.
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Even Ben almost proved it when he sacrificed his daughter for the good of the island, and MIB was still able to turn him afterwards.