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Post by danthew on Aug 14, 2009 10:25:10 GMT -5
Lol Spinal. The scene where Locke turns the donkey wheel after falling down the well.... "Christian" makes 2 statements, first that things only need a little push, and that he cannot give John a hand. The phrase "a little push" reminds me of Jacob and the candy machine (another Lost band name there...). Maybe Christian is really under Jacob control. |
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Post by bjmpsy on Aug 14, 2009 10:27:00 GMT -5
First... thanks, Jack, for posting this email. I had forgotten about it.
Spinaltumor--- when I was talking about Aaron, I said "son"... meaning not of direct lineage but possibly in the same line as Jesus was to God: a "son". Never assumed that Christian got freaky with his own daighter. BUT, on the other hand, what is Christian's image is actually DWG or Jacob, meaning that Christian is not Christian. For simplicity, lets say DWG is Smoky and Christian (popular theory). Therefore, maybe DWG is actually Aaron's father, but is walking around the island and appearing as Christian.
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Post by bjmpsy on Aug 14, 2009 10:28:21 GMT -5
Agreed... I watched Incident Pt 2 last night again and saw Jacob give a little push to the candy bar/Jack. Ahhhh the evils of candy! The scene where Locke turns the donkey wheel after falling down the well.... "Christian" makes 2 statements, first that things only need a little push, and that he cannot give John a hand. The phrase "a little push" reminds me of Jacob and the candy machine (another Lost band name there...). Maybe Christian is really under Jacob control.[/quote] |
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Post by Jack on Aug 18, 2009 11:52:17 GMT -5
Hey J & J,
I love the podcast and everyone's crackpot theories. I wanted to plead for you guys to discuss a different direction theories . . .
I'm just wondering why everyone feels that Jacob & DWG are at the top of this Lost hierarchy? I love how quickly an audience is led to assume new players are omniscient. At one time or another, we believed Others/Charles Widmore & Ben/ Richard were all supposed to be in the know-- so much for that. They all turned out to have a limited knowledge and were mere pawns in the game. I think to some extent we know there is a bigger reason, but the focus of theories have revolved around Jacob & "MIB" determining the parameters of the game.
Could you guys introduce theories about a greater force controlling this "game"/"war" (a singular event, the space-time continuum, Egyptian Gods/Aliens (sorry bad memories from the last Indiana Jones and JLA/Hawkwoman comics, I dunno anything dang it!)? Sure maybe these guys aren't simply pawns, but they are probably knights or rooks. Any fresh ideas would be great-- the zanier the better!
Thanks,
The Guitarcase
PS> 8 more months, might as well think of it from different
____
If you don't get what I'm talking about than read further . . .
Although the Lost audience wants to be able to believe they have enough information to solve Lost's mysteries, every time we are presented with new clues to a broader scope.It looks like something gave these guys their powers and they can only use it in certain ways. I think the writers leave plenty of evidence that Jacob and UnLocke aren't the top of the food chain:
Esau doesn't want Jacob to introduce more pawns in the game (not happy with that boat on the horizon). He doesn't seem like a character who is happy with the rules or the game itself.
"There is only one end"-- Esau seems to acknowledge what that end is.
After killing Jacob, DWG obviously doesn't want to stop there the "Others". If Jacob was more important-- like a King in Chess-- the game would be over and won.
Jacob seems to live like a loyal, faithful servant-- people acting in faith always look like they know the whole game (living in a statue, his crazy loom thing he weaved-- seemed like something a man a faith would do-- for who ever is controlling the game)
The fact that Jacob was killed so quickly might mean they didn't want to lead viewers too far without giving a clue to their limited power.
“If you must play, decide on three things at the start: the rules of the game, the stakes, and the quitting time”--
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Post by Jack on Sept 2, 2009 9:32:15 GMT -5
Hi Jay and Jack,
This is my contribution to the Locke debate, in a wishy-washy way in which I agree with Jay on a couple of points, but mostly with Jack (hey, I'm fair):
The story of John Locke is a tragedy. The ultimate example of "life sucks, and then you die". He suffers, fights, is told that he is special and meant for so much more, and then in the end gets nothing. Devastating for the character and less than he deserves, but still a compelling story for the audience. The idea that a character could go through so much, have such high expectations placed on him, and in the end have everything we believe about him switched around - he's nothing, he gets nothing - is not lazy, but brave. The writers dared to NOT give us what we wanted. His ending was a twist no one saw coming. Like the compass, the lie that John Locke was special was passed from John to Richard to John through time with no apparent origin or reason.
You know who else was a master of making characters struggle and suffer and die with no closure, no resolution to their troubles? Shakespeare. You calling Shakespeare a lazy writer, Jay?
And this is from a girl who did believe all along that Locke was the leader up until we saw that dead body. Dead is dead. They pulled the rug out from under me. I absolutely believed that Locke had all the potential to be the leader - he deserved it, he earned it, he was ready! But alas, it couldn't be so. Jay might very well be right about all the reasons Locke should be the leader, but that doesn't mean he's going to be. We don't always get what we deserve. Life sucks, and then you die. Locke was a pawn. He was used and manipulated. Sucks to be Locke!
I would of course still be thrilled if they managed to bring him back and hand him the destiny he always wanted in a way that's believable, but at this point I can't really think of a way that would be believable to my satisfaction - I absolutely would have believed him coming back to life by bringing the body back to the island, but now that he's back and still dead, what more can they do? I think we just need to accept John's fate - he was a great man with a sad story. And of course Terry O'Quinn will be back next season, just not as back-to-life Locke, only as Dark Locke (DWG) and Flashback Locke. And for the record, I don't consider Locke to be particularly selfish either. Certainly no more than Kate. (...I hate Kate)
As a side note, I only started listening to you guys at the start of season 5, so now that we're on hiatus I've started downloading your podcast from the beginning - what ever happened to closing the show along with cheesy 80s music? That was awesome!
And one final point: abbreviations can be a very useful tool to making writing, and often speaking, quicker, but not always. You're a podcast, and thus speaking, so let's talk syllables:
DWG: Dee. Duh. Bull. You. Gee. (5 syllables)
Dead. Wood. Guy. (3 syllables)
I rest my case.
YB doesn't save or add speaking time over Young Ben, so I can't argue with that one!
Love the podcast and I hope we all survive the long, long hiatus,
Julie
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Post by Jack on Sept 2, 2009 9:53:03 GMT -5
Steve
Hey guys, as always, love the podcasts. I've been shooting you notes on Twitter from steve8771; this is just too long for a tweet.
I've started rewatching the seasons (as I will again come December). I was watching Part 2 of the Pilot, around the 22 minute mark is when Locke explains to Walt about backgammon. "two players, one light, one dark." he also explains that tehres' been proof of its existence since ancient Mesopatamia. Finally, at the end of the scene he asks "Walt, do you want to know a secret." Obviously at the time we thought it was something along the lines of "I used to be in a wheelcahir," but now???
I know you guys like your predictions particularly batty, so here it goes: I think there's a distinct possibilty that Locke was NEVER Locke. I think Jacob was always Locke. Having fun yet? When Ben brings Locke to Jacob's Cabin, we hear a voice whisper "help me." Now clearly someone's spirit is in there. However, no one has gone into great discussion about what was with the black dust/rocks/whateever surrounding the cabin. I believe those were keeping DWG IN. Why would whatever was in the cabin start banging stuff and acting hostily towards locke? I think he was saying help me to Ben, who is clearly aligned with DWG (as Jacob is with Whidmore).
DWG Locke gets his guy, Ben, to kill embodied Jacob. When Locke is killed on the mainland, this is DWG's opportunity to take over as locke. Why would Jacob's people bring a crate with Locke's body then? Seems like a strage thing to just be carrying around, unless Jacob knew there was a possibility of DWG taking over the person.
While off the island, Whidmore and locke are working to get people back onto the island, and Ben Kills Locke (showing a contrast between the two). Further, Jacob visits several people on the mainland, even some (Hurley) to get them to go back.
I don't know, it's late obviously and I just watched the pilot over. They've always said there's some huge secret in the pilot...could this be it? I don't know.
also, concerning the title of the season premier, I don't have any real insight onto it, but it appears the new LOST logo (maybe it's just some weird internet searches) but it has the sillouhette of a big city in it. I kind of do and kind of don't like the idea of contrasting realities.
Anyway, Help me piece together this theory. I'm sure you'll at least get a laugh out of it.
ps i tweeted you guys today "what question do you think is least likely to be answered." I really don't think they're going to answer why claire had to raise aaron (though she never really did)...
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Post by markedman on Sept 2, 2009 11:01:07 GMT -5
Hi Jay and Jack, This is my contribution to the Locke debate, in a wishy-washy way in which I agree with Jay on a couple of points, but mostly with Jack (hey, I'm fair): The story of John Locke is a tragedy. The ultimate example of "life sucks, and then you die". He suffers, fights, is told that he is special and meant for so much more, and then in the end gets nothing...., Julie Julie (and Jack): There are more than two choices, guys! It doesn't have to boil down to either Locke is the leader and savior or Locke is/was a helpless pawn. While I think you are right that Locke was terrible as a leader, and failed completely at it, I don't think that was the end of the story. Other people tried to make him into a leader, and he tried to rise to the occasion, but it just wasn't in him. So far I agree with Jack and Julie on that. But we differ in that I don't think Locke ever wanted to be leader, rather he wanted to do what was right for the island. To his detriment he let himself be convinced by others to take actions that were not island-centric, and that is why I don't think the writers will leave him at this juncture. The island did/does have a purpose for Locke, and he has been sidetracked for five seasons on fulfilling that purpose. My prediction: in season 6 our boy Locke will have to do something absolutely critical to the fate of the island. I don't know whether it will be in flashback or in the 'present', or whether he will ultimately succeed or fail. But the wheels were set in motion when he pounded on that hatch and shouted "I've done everything you wanted me to do!" and the writers need to resolve it. Because Locke has done everything everyone else wanted him to do, and sometimes what he wanted to do, but he has not been doing what the island wants him to do. |
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Post by spinaltumor on Sept 2, 2009 12:12:41 GMT -5
Locke didn't set out to be leader of anything, but I think it was a job he was proud to fill given the slightest notion of getting to do it. But I suppose you could say that was because he thought the Island wanted it.
But then you get into all that "what is the Island" stuff. Is the Island really its own separate being or has the Island been Esau or Jacob or both all along? Was every sign from the Island really just Locke getting manipulated again and again? In which case Locke did everything he was told to do, and it killed him, just like the "Island" wanted.
Also just gonna throw out that Locke tried mostly what everyone else wanted him to do (at least with Richard and Ben...Locke hasn't listened to pretty much anything Jack has said). Did pretty much everything he wanted/chose to do (blowing up the hatch, blowing up the Flame, blowing up the submarine, taking Miles hostage, etc...). And as for the Island...well, see above paragraph.
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Post by markedman on Sept 2, 2009 15:45:12 GMT -5
Spinaltumor has some good points. I would have to go back and rewatch, but there seems to be times that Locke is at peace and sure of himself while "listening to the island". Sometimes they are little things like the look on his face when he is standing in the rain and he knows it is going to stop. And sometimes he is incredibly agitated when he is trying to accomplish something. One scene that comes to mind is when he was about to kill himself and Ben convinced him that he needed to take charge again. Perhaps I'm misreading it, but it didn't seem like Locke was relieved or vindicated, it seemed like it was painful to him, that he almost couldn't bear the thought of trying again. So maybe there are times when he is in touch with the island (whatever that means) and fulfilling his purpose. If so, I think the writers will need to bring him back to that before S6 ends and Locke will have to make a choice on which way to go.
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Post by Jack on Sept 8, 2009 13:32:30 GMT -5
Mathew
Hey Jay and Jack. Thank you so much for all the effort you guys put into the Podcast for all of us. I feel lucky that I found the podcast. I heard about the "Married guy"podcast the other day and Im looking forward to checking it out as well.I know we dont know each other, but I do feel close to you guys to a certain extent in that we all like Lost and we are all sharing views and such...Its awesome. =)
OK, the reason I think Jacob and deadwood guy arent brothers....and Deadwood guy isnt "Esau" all boils down to 1 sentence Deadwood guy says to Jacob when they are talking to each other about the ship. Deadwood guy says "Do you have any idea how bad I want to kill you?" Jacob says "Yes."Then Deadwood Guy says "One of these days,sooner or later,I'm gonna find a loophole my friend." Now, check me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it seem weird that he would call his brother "My friend"?. That 1 sentence has been bugging me for awhile now. I figured someone would mention it, but I havent heard anyone bring it up so I thought I would. I think the whole "Esau" thing has been blown way outta proportion. It seems like most people have excepted it even...but not me. Im not buyin into it. =P . Well guys, I hope your havin a great summer. Have fun at comic con. That sounds like its gonna be a blast. Wish I could go, but school and crap takes my time and money at the moment. Maybe next year....If it isn't an inconveniences it would be super cool to hear back from who ever reads this, but don't worry about it if your busy. I was just curious what you thought of my theory ruling out "The brothers". Thanks agian- Mateo (bayarea cali)
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Post by spinaltumor on Sept 9, 2009 17:53:00 GMT -5
I'm still confused as to who was calling them brothers at all to begin with.... Calling him Esau is just a logical nickname. Assuming they therefore must be brothers it quite random.
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Post by Jack on Sept 15, 2009 13:32:36 GMT -5
Seth
I would never consider Charlie a moth,
He always appeared as a bit of a sloth,
He thought of himself as a "bloody rock god,"
How could Evi date such a clod?
We're close to the six-month mark,
When the days get short and the morning is dark,
As the frost gathers on the windowsill,
I'll be warmed by my thoughts of shish ka-Phil.
A lot of time still remains,
Before we get to see Radzinski blow out his brains,
I hope that's one scene that Darlton picks,
To round out the demise of season six.
As the new season begins to unfurl,
What will happen to Desmond and his girl,
I may not be his biggest fan,
But Desmond seems to be the forgotten man.
We need to know who ends up dead,
From the explosion of part of Jughead,
Detonated by our girl Jules,
Do the writers think we're just a bunch of fools?
I would have a terrible fright,
If I saw our favorite Losties ignite,
Jack may be a bit of a jerk,
But I don't want to see him turned into a giant firework.
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Post by spinaltumor on Sept 15, 2009 13:56:24 GMT -5
Jack may be a bit of a jerk, But I don't want to see him turned into a giant firework. Indeed. But maybe Kate~  |
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Post by Jack on Sept 16, 2009 12:43:08 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
I love the show. And I thought I would put in my two cents. I have a few crackpot theories that I would like to share with you. This theory I like to call "The Bad Twin Theory". I think Deadwood Guy is the Good Guy and Jacob is the Bad Guy. If we learn anything from Gary Troup's Bad Twin (which wasn't a very good book, but wasa nice realm of Lost) is that the Good Twin who hires someone to search for his twin brother is the Bad Twin really, because he does all these good things to over-shadow the bad stuff he's doing behind the scenes. The Bad Twin is off traveling all over the world he seem to be gambling the family fortune and doing other bad things is really helping out the family business and friends. If you look at how Jacob met Kate, Sawyer, Locke, Jack, Jin and Sun. He helped them in some way and their lives turned out bad before the crash. Same with Sayid, Jacob distracted him well Nadia got hit after he got off the Island, so he could get back on to the Island once again. Plus, when Ben poured his heart out to Jacob and he simply said "What about You?" You'd think he would be a little simpathic.
Also, I was watching Live Together, Die Alone and Micheal need to bring back Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sawyer in order to get Walt back from the Others. I think either Jacob or Deadwood Guy told Richard that they were needed. This probably why they went to 1977 Dharma. Kind of far fetched but that's what Lost is about.
Oh, And the Statue is Sobek, he looks like a Crocdille. Or a mix Hippo and a Croc, a Super Animal God, It's a Crocotamus, LOL! And It's name is Twarobek. Which would explain the everlasting life and pregnancy?
Also, another Theory about Jacob and Deadwood Guy is Set and Osiris. They were on a island. Set killed Osiris and made Osiris the God of the Underworld. Set wanted the island to be a place of confusion and chaos, which the island is now.
Oh, and my husband thinks Jacob and Deadwood guy are the same person.
Anyways, Keep up the good work you guys. Can't wait to hear the next podcast. I so can't wait for January!
Thanks,
Jamie
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Post by spinaltumor on Sept 16, 2009 15:00:37 GMT -5
Twarobek...I like it.
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