Interesting e-mails

[Jack]

Hey guys,

It looks like my last e-mail created a little controversy to say the least. After listening to the last two podcasts I am compelled to respond. Jack, for someone who swears he likes John Locke you sure are making it hard to believe you. I certainly did not mean to ruffle your feathers in fact I love both you guys, but the whole point of my email was simply to point out that you are tougher on Locke than you are other characters most notably Kate. A point which you have proven on the last two podcasts. On the podcast that inspired my email you stated that Kate needed redemption, but Locke did not. Now you have changed your story to align with your hard stance on Locke. All of a sudden it's okay if Kate (or any other character) dies with no redemption?

Jay keep the faith. We both know that crumpled Locke on the beach does not make for a good story, case closed. Jack you even admitted it would be better for the show if there was a happier ending for Locke. That is until you convinced yourself otherwise. All of those Locke haters bellowed their hate on the last podcast, including an email by one J. Smith, who went so far to say it was good story telling to have Locke die in that manner. But here is my problem with you Jay. How could you let this one by? J. Lewis said it was like Yoda, and George McFly dying in their respective act two's? Uhhhh I am not sure what he was thinking but Yoda, and George McFly both came back for redemptive endings! Yoda with Ben and Anakin smiling at the victory celebration and George well he was back for a happy ending in the third film. How did you not point that out?

Anyways I could ramble further on, the endless repetitive arguments Jack contrives, the fact that Locke will not end strangled by Ben, and how my whole point was missed. While I give Jack credit, Locke may not be special, they sure spent allot of time building us fans up for a payoff with that character. This is a fact. Common sense dictates that it is not over for John. Oh well Jack, we can just agree to disagree, I still love your show, it may be time to find a new argument as I am sure you are getting tired of the Locke flock discord .

Big Fan
T.N. Loyd (a male)
Nashville, TN

btw...Jack why do you vehemently refuse to call DWG Esau? You may not think that's who it is but it is clear 95% of Lost fans are settled on calling him that.

[Jack]

Hey guys...

I have to apologize for what may turn out to be a long email, but bear with me, I've been out of the country for a couple weeks and have missed a couple podcasts. I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything anyone has already said.

First of all, GET OFF JACK'S BACK. No matter if he's wrong or right (read: right!) he is entitled to his opinion about Locke and his journey. Obviously I agree 100% with everything he's said, but I'm bothered by Jay saying that if this is how they chose to end Locke's story the show would be "tarnished" for him. I really don't understand why you (and so many others) think this wouldn't be an entirely fitting end for John Locke. We've been told the entire series he's nothing but a "pest," a manipulat-ee, and an old man who crashed on an island. This is exactly what he is! Nothing more, nothing less. And it's certainly not lazy writing to be brave enough to end a character in the way he's always been meant to end.... as a sad sack who's been duped. It may not be happy, but it is certainly compelling storytelling.

This also doesn't mean Terry O'Quinn will not be back or have nothing to do.... on the contrary, he'll be back in a much more important role: Esau!

I also think you've mis-defined the term "double-standard." Just because Jack thinks Locke is more selfish than Kate doesn't make it a double standard. The reason Jack had a laundry list of selfish things Locke has done is because he's done MORE selfish things than Kate! Also, maybe Jack doesn't care as much about Kate's selfishness in the long run because it hasn't had as big of a negative impact on everyone as Locke's behavior has.

A final thought on this: all the people you guys mentioned: Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Michael, even Ana-Lucia and Libby and Eko were not all redeemed to everyone's satisfaction. In fact, many argue they were killed off too early and unnecessarily. I am STILL not satisfied with Charlie's departure since, as it stands now, he basically DID die for no reason at all. Plus, Claire didn't even grieve for more than 5 minutes about him. I'm still angry about the way they handled this. But the reason it doesn't "tarnish" the show for me is because... that's life. Sometimes people don't die for a reason. They don't have happy lives. They don't get redeemed.

And John Locke is the poster child for this character.

As Sawyer said once in an episode, "A tiger don't change its stripes." Just like none of our characters (even Sawyer!) have changed AT HEART, nor has Locke.

Whew. Now onto a quick theory:

I doubt the final "flash" was a time flash. I think our guys will still be stuck in the 70s for awhile because they all haven't yet done what they were "brought" there to do. This also would set up a nice Season Six in the Jungle, like the good old days, since now they clearly can't go back and live with DHARMA, they will have to be on the lam in the jungle, starting from square one.

I think there's plenty of evidence to support the fact that they don't time-jump right away:

1) Hurley's "numbers." Everyone basically agrees Hurley eventually goes up to the radio tower and records those numbers. We haven't seen him do it yet, and that has to have been done before Rousseau crashes on the island.

2) Richard said he "saw them all die." He is NOT PRESENT at the Incident, so if they flash there, what was that line all about? I think it's perfectly possible Richard will witness them "dying" later on, we just haven't seen it yet.

3) Rose and Bernard. You're absolutely right that they should flash with everyone else. I'm certain we've seen the last of them, and I'm certain the writers are implying they become Adam and Eve (complete with black/ white backgammon stones found on them). If the Losties remain in the 70s for awhile, it's possible that Rose and Bernard will both die before everyone else flashes forward. Therefore, becoming Adam and Eve.

4) Also, I know it's crazy but I'm still convinced Kate will give birth in the 70s and THAT is the reason she needed to go back. I don't know why everyone is saying Juliet is pregnant, I think it's pretty clear Kate is pregnant (with Jack's baby!) because why else show us that ridiculous scene of her jumping on him in 316? (And yes, I still am holding onto my crazy crackpot theory that she's giving birth to Desmond. It ties everything together, makes their return NECESSARY, and the timing works as well.) Whatever is going on with Desmond, there is definitely a reason he's the only main character we haven't seen a childhood flashback and know nothing about his parentage. Also, he's "special" in regards to time travel for a reason.

Alright, I know that wasn't quick. But one more thing... I was in London recently and met up with Kevin Durand (who played Keamy). He's a friend of a friend, and after I geeked out a couple minutes I asked him if he knew what the hell was going on, and he said he had never seen the show so he had no idea, even as he was filming it. But he did mention something interesting: that the creators had told him to play Keamy as if Widmore had "threatened his entire family" if he didn't get the job done. Not that that changes the story at all, but I thought it was an interesting insight into Keamy's character.

(Also, he's super tall and the sweetest guy you could meet. I attached a photo of us.)

Thanks guys, sorry to rant but I've been without Lost Talk for almost a month now and had to let it out. :-)


Annie

[jacksloststepkid]

Heya Jack - these are great.

If it isn't too much work - it would be great if you can let these folks know you are posting these on the forums - it would be great to get some of them diving into the forums and mixing it up in the theories area and such.

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this

JLSK

[spinaltumor]

I'm the writer of the first email.

[Jack]

Hello Comrades



Esau has proven himself capable of inhabiting many bodies from Christian Shepherd to Ben’s daughter. We do not believe that these are the real bodies (where after all is the bullet hole in Alex?) but Esau has found a way of copying them and living in them. Esau has copied Locke’s body and is inhabiting it now.



But is Jacob capable of the same thing? Jacob’s body has been killed but he can now inhabit Locke’s.



What makes this particularly relevant is that the philosopher John Locke wrote about “personal identity” – a very specific part of philosophy that examines what constitutes a person. Is a person simply their body? If they are physically the same are they the same person? Does that make twins the same? Or do they have to share memories in order to be the same person? Is an eighty year old with dementia the same as their six year old self? You are physically the same person with the same genes, bones, teeth, cells but are you really the same person?



Locke radically argued that the Self was all about “consciousness” and memory. Having the same body and physical appearance is not enough. You may claim to be a reincarnation of Elvis. You may even look just like Elvis. You might have Elvis’s soul living in your body. You may be able to sing like Elvis but unless you have the memories of being Elvis in the earlier incarnation you aren’t Elvis at all. (Locke didn’t use Elvis as an example). It means that the body might change (and alter beyond all recognition) but you are the person that your consciousness is. It was all very SF for the time.



So we might be in a situation where Jacob inhabits one Locke while Esau inhabits the other one. So the final season will be Locke vs Locke in a battle for the island. Locke always wanted to serve the Island and this is how he can.



This will give you Jay the resolution that you wanted. Locke will be the heroic vessel for the salvation of the island. Locke’s body’s ability to heal has already proved that he is physically a miracle. But his character has let the island down. How perfect that his body becomes the saviour rather that his mind, his character, his personality.





Jacob’s Cabin



One further thought



We know that the cabin was built by Horace – hundreds of years after Jacob was first on the island. So why was Jacob in there. Two possible versions. When Locke was guided to the cabin by Horace it wasn’t Horace – it was Esau. Esau was putting in place the whole axis between Locke and Jacob which would lead richard to taking non-Locke there.



The second possible version is that by the time of the incident Horace had made the cabin. And the incident, among other things, trapped Jacob in the cabin. Perhaps the frozen donkey wheel freed him? Maybe without a body Jacob is trapped (for example in the Cabin).







Jacob’s cabin

[Jack]

Jul 11, 2009 10:45:03 GMT -5 jacksloststepkid said:

Heya Jack - these are great.

If it isn't too much work - it would be great if you can let these folks know you are posting these on the forums - it would be great to get some of them diving into the forums and mixing it up in the theories area and such.

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this

JLSK

I ask them first before I post them. I think only one person has say no so far.

[Jack]

Follow up message
Hello, Jay and Jack. I can't believe I'm actually going to submit a theory. I've been listening to you guys forever, and I have to admit (unfortunately) that I usually skip the listener feedback section because I am never that impressed with other people's impressions of the show. That's my problem, and I should probably look into professional help dealing with that. Are there any Lost-centric therapists out there? Huh...regardless, I have been thinking about this theory for the past month and I am prepared to through it out there, having just read Doc Jenson's new column on EW.com (none of his theories were very inspiring, either). So, here we go (and God bless you if you actually read all of this):

The general premise of my theory is that the Jughead explosion AKA the incident was the same kind of event as Desmond's turning of the failsafe key in the season two finale "Live Together, Die Alone." Meaning, the failsafe was a detonation of the energy. This detonation caused Desmond to flash into his past - he lived a flashback in real time, basically. At the end of the flash, Desmond woke up naked in the jungle, as we all know. I believe that the incident, and Juliet's triggering of Jughead, caused a similar (perhaps much less controlled) event, wherein the characters at the Swan site each experienced their own flash from their past. Now, here's the kicker: I think it is plausible that because the characters were in 1979 and would therefore be flashing into their pasts, which are technically in the future (still with me?), that at the end of their flash they would appear in 2007 around the ruins of the Swan station. This would fulfill Jacob's "They're coming" prophecy to Evil Locke/Esau/Man in Black.

I think what is most fun about this theory is that, if it is true, then the first scene of the final season of Lost could be Jack, Kate, Hurley, Miles, Jin, Juliet, and Sawyer waking up naked in the jungle together. How classic would that be?

Now some evidence of my theory's accuracy: first of all, and this is the big one, the cut to white scene at the end of "The Incident" has only been scene once before (well, technically twice): in "Live Together, Die Alone" and "Flashes Before Your Eyes" when Desmond turned the failsafe key. It is the exact same effect, and I don't think that is by chance - a sudden, silent cut to white. Further evidence comes from actor Matthew Fox, who recently said in an interview (paraphrasing) that the first half of the season would be confusing and that the second half would generally run straight through, narratively, on the island to the end of the show. No flashbacks or forwards. Therefore, there would need to be some sort of narrative device in the first half of the season (this is Lost, afterall).

Now comes my big finale, where everything I've discussed really comes into play: the final scene of the show. I have no clue at all, and no guesses, about what will happen on the island in 2007 (Shadow of the Statue people, Evil Locke, Jacob, etc.) Frankly, none of that really effects this theory though, and guessing specifics like that are a good way to get forgotten in the theory-mix. I am going for the big ideas/structures here. Take it as you will. I also have no idea what most of the 1979 crew will experience during their flashes (additional theories from other people needed there). One possible, though unlikely, example might be Miles trying to save the boy (Gardner?) from dying before his "Confirmed Dead" flashback. That's just an example, though. However, there is one character's flash which I am pretty sure about...Jack's.

Matthew Fox has made it pretty clear over the years that while he does not know any of the details, he has always had an idea about the last scene of the show, and in the recent interview which I referenced earlier (the Monte Carlo TV Festival one) he mentioned a big, final confrontation. For me, there is only one confrontation that will do for the end of my favorite show, the showdown I've been waiting for: Jack and his father, Christian. Damon, Carlton, and J.J. have always said that Stephen King's The Dark Tower is one of their big influences (and The Stand). The final scene of The Dark Tower is the first scene of The Dark Tower, creating a circular narrative. And while I don't think this is the goal of Lost, I do believe that these "flashes" allow the show to revisit the beginning of the series without cheating the audience. I propose that we will see all of the 1979 crew's flashes during the first half of the season, essentially retaining the flashback/forward structure of the show. That is, everyone but Jack's. Whatever happened to Jack during his flash will inform his actions throughout the final season, maybe even make him a halfway decent, reasonable guy again; essentially, the flash will "fix" him. Then, during the season finale, we will see Jack's flash (either as a whole or in pieces). I think that Jack's flash will begin with him on the plane and will go until he ends up in the jungle on the ground. If we take into account the mobisode "So It Begins" then we know for a fact that undead Christian was nearby. (Sidenote: not getting to far into the debate about undead Christian, just let me say that based on the whole "Say hello to my son" and his private conversation with Vincent in the mobisode, I think that some part of it really is Christian, which may mean there's hope for Locke.) I think that after the crash, Christian and Jack will have their big father/son emotional moment, where they can fight it out and cry it out and hug it out. Once that is over, Christian will tell Jack that his time is up (or something) and Jack will lie down and close his eyes, minutes before the opening shot of the series. Cut to LOST.

And there you have it. That's all I got. Please feel free to do what you want with this (discussion board, deletion, podcast discussion, etc.) I just wanted to think it through in writing. I am an English teacher, after all (and, I suppose, by the way).

Thanks for all your insight and humor, guys. Later.

Sincerely,
Andy Armstrong

[Jack]

Hey guys. Great podcast. But after several weeks of listening to your theories, I felt it was time to put my two pieces of copper in.

First off, the main thing your theories (for the most part) don't take into account is the writer's perspective. You sometimes skirt around this fact, but ultimately you guys ease back into talking about the characters like they are real people rather than fictional creations.

Case in point, the whole Locke debate. If Locke were a real person and this was a real person's life story, then yes, sometimes people just die and that's it and no chance for redemption. But this isn't a real person. It's Locke, perhaps the most popular character (and only Emmy-award winning performance) in the entire show. Seriously, you think that there's any chance Locke's story is done and he's just a corpse lying on the beach?

Locke is one of the few characters who will have a complete story arc, from the beginning of the series to the end. Kate, Sawyer, and Jack being the others. Jin, Sun, Hurley and Sayid not quite so defined arcs. But Locke CLEARLY has more redemption ahead of him. As a writer, Locke's story, especially this upcoming final lap, is one of the most deliciously ripe arcs in the history of television. He's currently at his lowest point, but that just gives him much more room to rise to his final greatness. How will they bring him back? Who knows? This is Lost. Why must you continue the charade that Locke is dead and there's no way for them to bring him back? Jacob will touch him, or his spirit will enter his body or it will be revealed that the Locke corpse is itself another shell just like Esau is using and the real Locke body is somewhere else, alive and well.

While I think Jack, Locke, Kate and Sawyer will all see their stories come to fruition, I don't think all of them will survive. I'd guess that at least half of our survivors from season one will give their lives heroically by series end. No one is going out like a punk. That's what Ben is for.


Anyway, now for a couple of theories.

Here's how the final season starts:
Closeup of eye opening. Cut to quick, disorienting angle of Jack's face. We see he's wearing his season one suit. But we just as quickly see that he's on 815. This opening shot may or may not begin in the same sort of extreme turbulence that led to 815's crash, but I'd guess probably so. We the audience will think we are watching another flashback to that crash. We'll cut to various spots on the plane where we see all our familiar Losties, such as Shannon, Hurley, Kate in handcuffs, etc. All is as we remember. The turbulence gets extreme and we fully expect the plane to split in half, but... the turbulence ends. We hear Greg Grunberg's voice come over the intercom telling the passengers that they've made it through the turbulence and everything is okay. Jack and Kate and the others are all looking around in disbelief. We get a hint that something is not quite right. At that moment, Charlie emerges from the bathroom, shaken, but okay. As he stumbles down the aisle, he passes by Hurley, who exclaims, "Dude! Charlie!". Charlie turns and looks at Hurley with no hint of recognition and continues on to his seat. Jack and or Kate (and the others that were at the apex of the explosion at the end of last season) finally catch each others eyes, and they KNOW. They remember everything that happened. But they realize that no one else remembers. The plan has worked.. but at the same time, it hasn't. They won't be allowed to go on with life like the Island never happened.

The first few episodes will be them trying to figure out what happened. They'll have to break Kate out of custody. Etc. They'll have some interaction with some of the other Losties who no longer remember their time on the island. But they'll have to convince them of things that WERE positive, such as Charlie overcoming his addtiction, Claire realizing she wants to keep her baby, etc.

This sort of remembering things that didn't happen will be incredibly poignant for our Losties. How sad for Hurley that Charlie no longer acknowledges him as a friend.

This might also be how Locke comes back. Does he remember? Is he able to get out of his wheelchair?

At some point after a few episodes, the endgame will reveal itself, as Jacob and Esau get all their pieces in place. I almost think that we won't see the continuation of the stabbing Jacob scene for at least a few episodes, until we get the new timeline sorted out a bit. It might even wait until midseason when we realize that "They're coming" refers to all the people from the revised timeline finally showing up.

As to the good/evil nature of Jacob and Esau, I think we'll find out that Jacob is indeed the good guy, but on a higher level of the game than mere mortals, and as such, isn't quite so concerned about who lives and dies. He's got bigger things to worry about.


A side theory for Jacob is that he's been trapped in an endless time loop, perhaps by Esau. It gets to the same point and repeats itself, but he remembers every trip through (but not Esau). It's like Groundhog Day. So over these centuries, he has been slowly manipulating things, and changing things and finding just the right people to finally break the cycle. And that's what's happened. While Esau thinks he found the loophole to win, in reality, it's Jacob who was in control of that whole sequence, and it actually leads to his victory, of sorts. Jacob's taunting of Ben to finally push him over the edge is my proof of that. Jacob had to make that final push to get Ben to do what needed to be done.

But now that the cycle is broken, there's bigger problems that will now need to be fixed, a bigger battle yet to be waged, and that will lead everyone back to the island for the endgame.

Everyone has a destiny.


I've got more theories, but that will do for now.

I'm fairly certain that my prediction for the season premiere will be close to what I've written. The writers spent so much time setting up what MIGHT happen that there's only two possible outcomes. That nothing changes, and they wake up on the plane with no memory and time continues just like it always did in an endless loop. Not going to happen. That's the boring route. Who wants to see the same events AGAIN. But... if you allow Jack's plan to work.. kind of, then you have endless possibilities for drama and angst and adventure. They DID change the future.. but not like Jack expected. It's the only interesting direction they can go.

It also gives ample opportunity for stars from previous seasons to make short or extended cameos, as has been rumored.

Anyway, thanks for keeping the Lost buzz going. I love your show, even when some of you are so clearly misguided and naive in your theories.

Have a great day.


Victor DiGiovanni

[Jack]

Hey Jay and Jack! I absolutely love the podcast. I actually never thought I would even watch Lost to be honest. I made fun of my friend for watching it for years and then about two months ago I had nothing to do so I went on abc.com and watched the pilot. I expected to be turning it off after five minutes, and boy was I wrong! All I can say is I got hooked and I had to order the season 1-4 box set. Basically I watched all five seasons in a little under two months and it was the greatest decision of my life haha I recently got a macbook and went on itunes and searched for Lost Podcasts and yours came up. I listened to one of your shows and by the end of the show I thought I was going to die from laughter! You guys are funny as hell but also you have some really interesting discussions about the show.

Now onto why my email is called what it is called. Recently in your last few podcasts you have been discussing Locke and his future, I won't go into anymore since you guys obviously know what you have been arguing about. Well I must say that while I am a HUGE Locke fan, I guess you could say im in the Flocke hahah! But anyway I hate to say this Jay but I agree with Jack here. This is funny because I kinda like Jay more than Jack(even though your both awesome) but Jack just has it right here. The entire show they have been showing us that Locke really isn't that special, hell we now know that Locke was the one that told Richard that he was special. Now part of me still holds onto the fact that Locke is special seeing as he survived being a premature baby, knew when it was going to rain, etc. But of course that can be chalked up to the island or Esau manipulating him.

Basically I just wanted to say that it wouldn't be LAZY WRITING if the last we saw of the real John Locke was dead on the beach. I truly believe there is more left for him and that won't be his fate (I think he lies in the shadow of the statue) but if this is it for poor old John I would be fine. It's a brilliant move in my book and show's you just how different Lost is from all the other shows out there. Whatever happens with Locke I will be happy, because I was able to enjoy what I consider the greatest television show ever!!!

Thanks for reading my email and I just want you guys to keep up the great work! I'll be listening to your tweet cast tonight and can't wait for it!

Namaste,
Eric S. from Maryland

P.S.- Jacob's a good guy!!!

[Jack]

HI Jay and Jack,

How are you guys? I'm just having a LOST breakdown here, but I'm okay. I have been watch the early episodes over and over againa nd there are some clues that are sticking out like a soar thumb that are leading me to quite a few theories.

1) Do you remeber the episode: Flashes Before My Eyes in season 3, it was about what happened to Desmond after the hatch imploded. He woke up in a prior rime in his life with Penny. Now Desmond time traveled and was granted the gift of foresight on the island. Now Locke was with him when the hatch blew up, what happened to Locke? I'm assuming that the same thing happened to him, right? I have proof that John Locke has been traveling back in time, I'm not sure when but here are the clues.

-(Exodus Part 2) Locke and Jack have an argument about fate and science and why they landed on the island. Jack said something like 'I don't believe destiny' obviously he does in season 5 and John states matter-of-factly 'You will'.

-Boone and Locke split from Jack and Kate on the search for Claire, while Locke states that it will rain exaclty one minute from now. It rained.

-While Jack was hanging off a cliff while on his search for his reappearing dead father, Lock miraculousley appears and saves him, while he was on his hunt for boar.

2) In the episode Not In Portland, Kate, Alex, and Sawyer save Karl from being brainwashed by the others. On the screen for a split second, it says "God loves you as he loved Jacob." My theory: Jacob is not good, because who is his second in command? Ben. Jacob is the reason they are there and the reason why most of them died and if Ben is following orders from Jacob, think of what Ben has been doing all this time. Stealing pregnant women, murdering people, etc. Or unless this is all a test to encourage all these people to do the wrong they have done in the past and have a second chnace to change it all, and Jacob is a probably some messenger from God testing these people on their faith.
Or Jacob is a fallen angel like Satan, and the island is his own hell.

3)Now do you remeber what I said about Adam and Eve, well I there were two dead bodies there (female and male) but when Jack reached in one of the body's pocket he pulled out two stones: one black, one white. Possibly representing Jacob and the other guy dressed in black (good and evil). After this Kate and Jack look at each other after seeing the stones but it was never mentioned again.

4)How I think the sixth season is going to go, well I think it will be narrowed down to our main charcaters: Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke (who is not really Locke), Sun and JIn, Hurley, Sayid, Juliet, and Ben. Desmond and Penny has to come back, so will Widmore, Eloise, Claire, Aaron, the smoke monster, and of course Jacob. I think that they will show us what it will be like if the plane never crashed on the island. But I said it before, I'll say it again, Roussau said the smoke was a security system to protect the island, the monster must have a purpose and the island I'm assuming is still there. To fill in the gap, i'm clueless of whta will happen. But how I think it is going to end is this: all of our main characters will all go back to the beginning and change where they done wrong. If Kate doesn't kill a man, she'd end up with Tom and never will be on the island, Sawyer stops his parents from getting killed, he would never become a con artist, he would never kill the wrong man and etc.

Obvioulsy this show is about hope, fate, science, life, death, good, evil, religion, and choices. You make your own choices in life, but maybe it is destiny that connects us to ouselves and where we belong and especially our purpose. That is the point I think they are trying to make, so maybe that is how they will end it to stay true to the theme..
But after five years of watching this show it is so obvious and almost predictable that something so ironic and impossible will happen next. They will need the best ending to concude this story, one a million times better than Newheart and I hope to God that this is not a dream or that all that they done was for nothing.

I got more theories, so when I remember them I'll email you! Bye! Please email back soon!

Sincerely,
Marina

[Jack]

Hey Guys,

I was one of those people defending Jacob after the Lock Flock Podcast. I still am defending this stance. The Losties plane ending up on the island was NOT Jacob's fault. Desmond Didn't push the button, EMP happened, plane crashed. Why is there a need for the button, Radzinski for sure with his keep drilling attitude and possibly the Losties themselves with a hydrogen bomb core detonation.
I still don't think the numbers broadcast was Jacob and don't think he brought Danielle there (everyone was saying that they thought the numbers sounded like Hurley.) Jacob did not bring Desmond to the island, maybe Widmore did with his sailing race, but if the island is always moving how would he know Desmond would end up there. When DWG says "you brought them here" That could just mean he gave people the choice to come and they did (I know that if the Black Rock was a slave ship then the slaves would not be there of their own free will, If Richard was one of these maybe this is why Jacob made him the way he is.) The word "brought" can be used rather broadly in this instance.

Jacob went to Ilana and asked her to help him, giving her a choice. He never went to Sayid to directly ask him to come back. Maybe Ilana was supposed to help Sayid realize he needed to go back, and it was her choice to take him by force (not Jacob's choice and who's to say he condoned this action). Maybe this wasn't even the thing Jacob needed help from Ilana for, we just don't know. Some times one human being's choices might negate other's choices. Also, it's not like he could go to Sayid after that car accident happened and be like "Remember me, hey you wanna catch a flight to the island?" Another thing, Nadia had the choice to continue walking or to come back over to the curb with Sayid, she was not paying attention and got hit by a car.

That is the fun of this though, is we we just don't know. Just because Jacob may have known the plane was going to crash does not mean he has the ability to DO anything to influence that one way or another. He can also lay choice before you , but can't make people follow one path or another. Maybe he can't specifically make a person do something, but he can give other's the choice to make his outcome happen. It's DWG said "They Destroy, They Corrupt"

We could go back and forth on this forever, point, counter-point and so on.It's all semantics and
us filling in untold story with our own thoughts. I personally DO see both sides. Just remember sometime's accidents happen and Also the famous line "don't tell me what I can't do" basically
meaning everyone has choice. Either way it plays out I'm sure I'll be satisfied. Again, I did overlook
the Sayid apparent lack of choice and in a way, that sparked this hot mess your reading here. So
good job on that. In closing, Hurley's my hero.

Signing off,

Adam

P.S. Season 6 Death predictions

Deadpool: Never say Die:
Juliet - goner Kate - Couldn't get rid of her if you tried
Sayid - toast Claire - Of course she lives
Locke - on the slab Jin and Sun - together again
Rose - Dead to me already Desmond - see you in another life brotha
Bernard - Ditto Ben - He's my dark horse
Sawyer - See ya James Hurley - he's my candidate
Jack - Series finale casualty Walt - Let us never speak of him again
Richard - The guy never ages, but I bet he bleeds Little Charlie - They won't kill kids, would they?
Christian - isn't he already dead? Aaron - Ditto
Mikael - wouldn't this be awesome

Riding the Fence:
Lapidus - who is this yahoo?
Miles - Rufio
Widmore - McCutcheon anyone?
Ellie Hawking - Hope she not wearing red shoes
Penny - Our mutual friend
Cindy the flight attendant - Peanuts anyone?
Ilana, Bram & crew - Who are these guys?
Vincent - How old would that dog be in dog years?

[Jack]

Hi Jack!!

I haven't been able to listen to you lastest podcasts, the last one I heard was the one about the lazy writers (really Jay??? Lazy?!?!) Anyway, I don't want to argue about that... I just want to ask you some questions that I've been formulating while rewatching S1 to S5 in the last couple of months.

Ok, the fisrt one is, since we didn't see much of Desmond in S5, what could happen to make him go back to the Island??? He swore to Penny that he will never go back but Ms. Hawking told him the Island wasn't done with him yet. My sister and I been asking ourselves what could make Desomond go back. What we have theorized is that maybe something happens to Penny or Charlie and Pops Widmore tells him that the Island can cure or heal or whatever is wrong with his family. At first we thought that Ben might kill Penny or wound her badly, but now that theory is dead. And why does he has to go back??? See, while thinking about this I came to think that "reseting" everything that happened by detonating jughead didn't work, cause if it did, then Desmond wouldn't be out of the Island hence didn't need to go back cause the Island wasn't done with him, right???

The second question has to do with Claire, dunno if it's already been mentioned before, but I think that she is dead... she died when Keamy and Co. bombed Dharmaville and she was sleeping in her house. Sawyer "rescued" her but it wasn't her, it was Loophole using Claire's body and that's why then Aaron was abandoned in the middle of the jungle. Loophole was using everything he could to make Locke think he was special and that he was the next leader and all that nonsense, so that he could use Locke's body in order to kill Jacob.

The thing here is that I think that Jacob had already planned all of this... everything that has happened so far was already forseen by Jacob and getting him murdered was the last part of his super master plan. My sister and I can't figure out yet what is he planning and we can't determine if he's the good one or not. My sister says he's the good guy, cause Ben was working for him and he claims that they are the good ones, so does Bram and he and Ilana are working for him too... but I think he's evil. I just picture Mark Pellegrino as Paul from Dexter and since he was a d**k in that series, I just picture him as the same in Lost.

And about the shadow of the statue, the response from Ricardus is "the one who will save/protect us all" or something between those lines. At first I thought they mean Jacob but then I thought that he is inside the statue, not in the shaodow, that means that the "saviour" must have been outside, right? So maybe that savior is not Jacob but someone from the outside... and then I thought about why bringing Lapidus back and asking if he was a candidate, a candidate for what??? Maybe to be that hero that will save them all from Jacob or from Loophole or whatever the threat might be. I love Lapidus character and I was super thrilled to have him back but I think there's more of him that we don't know. He was supposed to be piloting flight 815 so he was supposed to get to the Island, he just "delay" his arrival and he might be a mayor player in the next season.

About Richard, we now know that he's ageless cause of Jacob, not cause of Maybelline as I thought, but was he on the Black Rock??? I like to think that he's older, like from Egyptian times, cause of the eyeliner, I mean, not eyeliner but his super thick and black lashes. Does he knows the existence of Loophole??? Why didn't he protects Jacob?

And our last question: why bring Locke back?!?!?!?! Sorry Jay, but I just don't see the point. Maybe bringing Terry so he can play Loophole, but Locke, I don't think so. As I have said before, Locke is no leader, he doesn't know what to do nor what his purpose is and he never has a plan. He's a miracle cause he's no longer in the wheelchair??? Yes, but so is Rose, cause her cancer is gone as well. He was told by his mom that he was special then by Ben, but c'mmon, 99.9% of what Ben says is a lie so...

Well, I guess this is all...

Thanks for the podcast in these long months of solitude...

Hasta luego!

Aurelí

[Jack]

Follow up message
Hey, Jay & Jack! It's Gerry from Tustin again, the one with the DHARMA cake. So, I have a couple of theories and a question! This is exciting for me because I'm usually the one listening to theories, not coming up with them!

Okay, I think we're going to find out that Jacob and "Esau" can "move" the island similar to how Ben moved it, only with more control. So, right after Jacob and "Esau" have that conversation on the beach, Jacob will go "dislodge" the island slightly, just enough to have it re-materialize where the Black Rock is sailing. The island will come up underneath the ship or whatever, and that's how the Black Rock and all its crew end up on the island.

Imagine the opening scene of the upcoming season premiere: a shot aboard the Black Rock, crew members are all gathered on the main deck to witness one of their own accused and tried for some wrongdoing, maybe mutiny, and made to walk the plank. The perpetrator? Ricardus Alpert. The captain may be someone recognizable, maybe an ancestor of Charles Widmore, or maybe even Widmore himself, who knows? Ricardus reaches the end of the plank and gets pushed over or whatever. As he's falling, you hear the noise, see the flash... and he lands on solid ground. He looks up and sees Jacob. Jacob helps him up (thus touching him) and tells him to follow him. He does so, and before plunging into the jungle, he looks back, sees the ship behind him... and Smokey enveloping it and killing everyone onboard. Cut to black... and flying "Lost" title. Thus begins Alpert's journey for redemption. Jacob will tell him what he needs to do to be absolved of his sins; he will be in charge of bringing people to the island and will also somehow become advisor to a series of "Leaders."

BTW, I'll bet you anything that the "Leaders" are completely ineffectual, and that Jacob and "Esau" are the ones really running things. The "leaders" are just figureheads ("puppets," if you will ) and I think that's becoming more and more apparent.

Maybe Alpert isn't immortal. Maybe he's just allowed to travel back and forth through time, like Jacob, so it just looks like he doesn't age.

When Jacob said, "They're coming," I think he was talking about the rest of the D.I. They're coming to help out Ilana and the rest of them take back the island and defeat "Esau." And "Esau" is Smokey. I'm sure of it.

And, finally, has anyone ever stopped to ask why the question of what lies in the shadow of the statue is in English and the answer is in Latin?

So, what do you think? I think I've given you a lot to talk about, maybe too much. Love the podcast, keep up the great work!


Gerardo A. Morales

[Jack]

Follow up message
Hey Jack, Hey Jay, my name is TJ, from Arizona.
First off, great shows. I listen to, and love, them all.

I have a question about Pierre Chang's arm, and would like your input.

What we know:
"Marvin Candle" filmed the Swan Orientation film with an injured arm, mentioning the Incident.
But "Mark Wickmund" mentions the Swan's experiments in the Pearl video, using both hands again.
And "Edgar Halliwax" uses both hands to place the bunny in the Vault in the Orchid.
But in the Flame computer Program, Chang does not move his arm while he lists commands such as: "Has there been an Incursion on this Station by the Hostiles? If so, Enter 77".

Let me provide a quick Timeline as we have seen it through Season 5:
- Sayid arrived near the Flame in 1977, so the computer was already installed (Chang has injured arm)
- The Incident occurs after Sayid and everyone arrives in 1977 (Chang's arm is injured)
- The Orchid is completed shortly after Incident in 1977 (Chang's arm is fine)
- The Swan is completed only after the Incident in 1977 (Chang has injured arm)
- The Pearl is completed after the Swan because the Swan is featured in the video (Chang's arm is fine)

So, if Chang's arm is injured after the Flame Station and before the Orchid, Swan, and Pearl Stations, then why does he have a prosthetic in those videos, but not in others? Perhaps the Flame Program was created after the Incident? I'll buy that. But how do you explain the Orchid and the Pearl?

Here's another Timeline, maybe how it should have happened originally:
- The Flame is created for communication before 1977 (No "Enter 77" command, and Chang's arm is fine)
- The Orchid is completed around 1977 (Chang's arm is fine)
- The Swan is completed shortly after (Orientation film does not mention Incident, and Chang's arm is fine)
- Pearl is completed, and cameras watch the Swan experiment with Electromagnetism (Chang's arm is fine)
- The Incident occurs, and DHARMA blames the Hostiles (Chang looses his arm)
- The Swan Orientation is re-filmed to include the Incident and pushing the button (Chang's arm is injured)
- The Flame Program is re-filmed to include "Enter 77" command in case of Incursion (Chang's arm is injured)

So did they really change the future with Jughead? Was Chang not supposed to injure his arm until later, after these other videos were filmed?

Thanks for your input on this subject. Again, I really enjoy your guy's shows.
Keep up the great work, and have fun at Comic Con next week.

TJ

[Jack]

Opening seen season six. There's a blonde woman her back is turned she's dressed in old taterd clothes and wood sandles. There's two small children in the room with her. A closer look reveils the children are boys and they're playing backgammon. You here the womans voice it sounds formiliar. She's speaks in laton "play time is over time to come eat .......Jacob. And just when you think the lost logo is coming with it's trade mark thud. The camara pans to show the woman is Juliet. The camara pans out to sea and shows the island and you see a old stone city with a large central piramid shaped temple. As the scene fades to black you hear the young Jacob say "coming mommy" LOST thud!

How? As seen in the finale. We have reason to believe Juliet is pregnant. My thought is that when we see the flash of white all the losties flash to different times. Juliet ends up in ancient times on the island were she simply appears to the people of the island out of thin air. They presume she is a god come to earth. She begins helping the people of the island with the problem of child birth. Both the mother and child die before the baby is born. With her medical history she solves the problem. To the natives this is proof that she is a god and in there beliefs the god of fertility is Taweret, they assume Juliet is Taweret so they errect a statue of Taweret with some of Juliet attributes (like the butt and hair) in her honor. So my theory as far fetched as it is, states that Juliet and Sawyer are Jacobs parents and maybe even the parents of twins (nemesis,fake Locke,mib, esaw) might be Jacobs brother the other boy playing backgammon. I wrote a theory similar to this a while back but have added to it since. Also seeing as in my theory Jacob is conceived in 1977 then travels through time to ancient island while in the womb, maybe he hasn't aged and can't until he passes the point in time were he was conceived. Out living all others thus becoming the leader and protector of the island. Thanks for reading. Stay LOST.

NAMESTE

Dharma Jay

Jason