Sayid, Muslim, yada yada...

[Sunan]

I'm posting this in response to the person in the latest podcast who mentioned that it doesn't mention praying in the Quran at all. Actually, I'm almost positive that praying is mentioned in the Quran, and even if it wasn't, I'll go to the basic roots of Islam: the five pillars.

The five pillars of Islam are mostly associated with Sunni Muslims, but Shi'a Muslims do follow some of these pillars: one of which being prayer. Prayer times do differ between the Shi'a and the Sunni, but they both do pray indeed. Praying is one of the biggest aspects of Islam, and I'm sure there are very few, if any sects that neglect to do so.

I can't give you a specific passage from the Quran about prayer, but I can try to track it down if you really need it.

Friendly debate is always fun though. I'm just hoping whoever sent their thought about it to the podcast visits the board to.

[Firebert]

yeah, i'd always thought that prayer was one of the mandatory parts of Islam.

[Cihan]

Tis I!

Ok, basically here is what I meant about the concept of ritualised praying in the Quran:

In the Quran there is the concept of 'dua' which translates as 'prayer' and this can be done any way a Muslim sees fit.

Then there is the concept of 'salat' which is up for debate but the majority of sects consider this to mean the ritualized prayer format that is explained in a separate bunch of books called the 'hadith' or 'sunna', which are the sayings and doings of the prophet Muhammad. I say the concept of salat is up for debate because of three main reasons:

1] 'Salat' does not mean 'prayer'. Dua means prayer. The dictionary definitions for salat include: 'contact', 'connection', 'link' and 'commitments'. Some people think it means meditation, some people say its walking the Straight Path each day, which encompasses all the rules of Islam.

2] The Quran explicitly explains to the reader that it is clear, detailed and perfect and that it should be the only hadith (‘hadith’ meaning ‘sayings’) a follower needs to get through life. There are no instructions in it on any type of ritualised praying as seen in various sects. I personally believe if someone says that you need the hadith to understand the Quran then they are contradicting the Quran itself by claiming its not complete.

3] The hadith were compiled from verbal statements over 100 years after the prophet Muhammad died and so you have to understand that they will include either intentionally offensive things to Islam or glorified exaggerations about the prophet. They include very weird things that at times contradict the Quran (and common sense) many times. This is not to say that there isn’t some wisdom in them, but for the most part if you use common sense you will be put off by some of the things within them. I would be wary of the way they were put together, the whys and how’s, and the fact that the authors were Persians whose country had been taken over by Islam much to their chagrin.

It’s not my place to tell anyone how to follow their own beliefs, but this post should explain where I'm coming from when I said what I did. There are spiritual beliefs in the world and there are sects of these beliefs, and everyone one of us is subjective.

In relation to Lost, I see Sayid as a Muslim, not simply by the fact that he was muttering prayers in Arabic while hanging upside down from Rousseau’s trap (I don’t believe Arabic is some ‘holy’ language), not just because he was seen doing ritual prayer in a flashback (I don’t believe you need ritual prayer to be a Muslim), but because he shows he has a moral compass. His actions show he believes in judgement for past actions. After torturing Sawyer, he showed remorse and repentance for his deeds, he takes responsibility for his actions and is always trying to walk the Straight Path.

Peace.

[darthjerryt]

I think you can be raised in a religion and grow up to be a non-religious person that isn't devout, but still basically believes in that religion. I can only speak for Catholics because thats what I was raised as. I'm not religious at all and I know lots of people like that, yet many of them still consider themselves Catholics. They go to church on the major holidays and thats it. Perhaps Sayid is that type of Muslim.

[evilgus]

Maybe he isn't even a Muslem. Isn't that stereotyping him that just because he is Iraqi, he must be a Muslem?

[Sunan]

I understand what you're saying Cihan, but I'm not going to make a full-fledged response until I re-check my facts once more.

But from a writer's perspective, do you actually think that they put all that much thought into Sayid's character and went with the whole idea on "salat is unnecessary" as a reason for why Sayid is never show praying? I'm just thinking that their neglecting or for lack of a better word, forgot, all about that part of Sayid.

Also, evilgus, we aren't stereotyping. We're simply making a logical deduction from all the signs we've been given pointing to him being a Muslim. One of the most prominent is that his name is Sayid, an arabic name. Sure it might not mean anything that his name has arabic roots, but if he was Hindu or Christian, even, I would imagine that his name might have possibly been different. Secondly, he is seen praying in a mosque in Sydney. He could've been pretending but I don't see that to be very likely. Thirdly, his friend in Sydney told him to martyr himself as well. Why would he ask a non-Muslim to aid in a suicide bombing? Fourthly, in the first few episodes, Sawyer accuses him of being a terrorist, and Sawyer obviously meant it in a "you're arab so you have to be a Muslim radical terrorist we see on the news these days". If Sayid wasn't a Muslim, wouldn't he say something along the lines of "I couldn't be a terrorist because I'm not Muslim and don't have any radical goals to achieve".

[Annie]

Also, Sayid mentions/calls out to Allah in one episode. Can't remember which one, maybe when Danielle was interrogating him?

[darthjerryt]

Solitairy. I literally just watched it again.

[evilgus]

Fair enough if he shouted Allah.
I just thought he might have been pretending at the mosque so the terror cell would welcome him into their group.

[Cihan]

darthjerryt said:

I think you can be raised in a religion and grow up to be a non-religious person that isn't devout, but still basically believes in that religion. I can only speak for Catholics because thats what I was raised as. I'm not religious at all and I know lots of people like that, yet many of them still consider themselves Catholics. They go to church on the major holidays and thats it. Perhaps Sayid is that type of Muslim.

Yeah I agree, thats basically the jist of what I'm thinking about his character.

evilgus said:

Maybe he isn't even a Muslem. Isn't that stereotyping him that just because he is Iraqi, he must be a Muslem?

You're right that its easy to stereotype middle eastern people in that way (not every person in that region is automatically a Muslim afterall), but I assumed he was a Muslim based on one major factor, which was the brief scene showing him praying in Arabic in season 1, while hanging upside down from a trap.

Sunan said:

But from a writer's perspective, do you actually think that they put all that much thought into Sayid's character and went with the whole idea on "salat is unnecessary" as a reason for why Sayid is never show praying? I'm just thinking that their neglecting or for lack of a better word, forgot, all about that part of Sayid.

I totally agree that they probably havent thought much about his spiritual beliefs at all, and I personally believe that the main reason he doesnt pray in a ritual format is because it would make his character boring and unaccessible in a way. Not because of the act of his praying would turn viewers off, but because it would get in the way of more conventional storytelling aspects. While other characters are debating and fighting or whatever, there would be more chance of him just off to the side praying or something and not being as involved. Dont know if that made any sense but I'm just trying to think from a writer's perspective, having a character on the island be busy 5 times a day praying would limit the storytelling aspect for him. Well maybe not, ok short answer: The writers couldnt be bothered.

There! ;D

[Annie]

Along that same line, maybe he does pray 5 times per day, but we don't see it. We don't see everything these people do and talk about.

[darthjerryt]

I see your point. Have we ever seen anyone have to relieve themselves on LOST? That doesn't mean they haven't, but do we really need to see that, of course not.

[Sunan]

darthjerryt said:

I see your point. Have we ever seen anyone have to relieve themselves on LOST? That doesn't mean they haven't, but do we really need to see that, of course not.

It has been implied and mentioned in passing that they do go to the bathroom though, like the one time Hurley was collecting leaves for toilet paper.

[addboy]

I remember that.......hehehehe....

[evilgus]

Sayid doesn't pray 5 times a day. He has been westernised enough to know that religion isn't true.