Post by greengrown713 on May 24, 2010 19:38:55 GMT -5
Crazy Finale
Crazy finale. I thought it was solid at first, I like it more as time passes. Here are some thoughts I have about the finale and the show as a whole, one day after watching it all end. No doubt they will evolve and perhaps change all together over time.
Either way, I’d like to know what you all think, and where you are at following the end of LOST. There is no question debate will rage for some time. So in honor of LOST’s end, I post one of those massive posts that I often make fun of…believe it or not I tried to keep this short.
Once again, I’m not really holding back here. This is basically my “reading” of Lost, and I’d love to know how you feel about it and where you would differ in your understanding.
Surface level Lost: What was the story?
What was at stake? EVERYTHING!
Opening scene of S6: Island at the bottom of sea. Final reveal: they’re all dead in the AU. To me, in the end there is no question what the “stakes” really were in LOST…world destruction. In retrospect, this is the significance of that first scene of S6.
Basically, my take is fairly straight forward. There really is a place on earth where the “energy” that seems to “bind existence” (so to speak) is centered. This energy seems to effect time/space, and it also looks a lot like “heaven” looked when the Losties moved on. It is more or less, the core fabric binding our existence, and if it is allowed to leave the island, it’ll leave the world, and the world would end… at the very least.
The island is the cork, and the earth is the bottle, and island is keeping the light in the bottle. That is a more apt analogy than the one Richard got, for the purpose of our analysis. However, the “darkness” in many ways being the absence of light, unleashing that on the world if MIB puts the light out, is really the same thing.
It is unclear what the “world” is in the context of “the world ends if the light goes out” but it is suggested in many ways that all of the people would cease to exist, not merely die and enter their own “AU” working toward “moving on.” The light not only seems to bind space/time, but bind existence…including the place the Losties moved on to at the end. This is the way I view it, and when you look at it that way you realize MIB was beyond evil by the end of his life, he was every bit the darkness Jacob billed him as.
Continuing on….
There are “special” people in the world. These special people are in some cases more in touch with this energy/island. MIB was very special, turned into an immortal smoke monster and wanted to destroy the island and leave…he became “evil” over time. He lost his humanity to his own desires and of his own “choice,” not merely when Jacob tossed him in the well. He was, by the end of his life, nothing short of the nameless embodiment of anger, confusion, and the darkness in man.
Eventually he found a way to use Jacob’s own process of candidates against him as a loophole, tricking the “best” candidate who was correct about the island and special the whole time (Locke) and those around him (Ben, Richard ect…) to kill Jacob. Here at the end, it is now my final belief John Locke walked again on his own upon crashing on that island, and MIB discovered him has a tool for the first time when he saw him while he was hunting boar (already walking). John Locke was special. That’s my final reading of him. He was the direct MIB parallel (as was obvious by then end of S6), but he was able to let go of his anger when he found the island. He was flawed, he was wronged by many in his life, he knew love, loss of love, betrayal, ect…but he had the capacity to avoid being consumed by the darkness in spite of all this.
Because of this, Locke was able to have enough of an effect on Jack by the end that Jack was ready to take up his cause and do what the finale was: unplug the light (Des is the key for that), kill MIB, and plug the light back in (Jack is the key for that). Jack saved the characters, the island, and the world. Contrary to what MIB had so say, Jack certainly died “for something.” He brought peace to the war, and left the island to Hurley for safe-keeping, who understandably was a bit taken back by this at first… but I believe was quite well suited for this in the end.
That is basically what “surface level” Lost ended up being from what I gathered. The story of all these characters, and the fate of the world, but LOST is mainly the story of Jack. The man who sacrificed himself to protect EVERYTHING. Keep this in mind….
Characters Epilogue: The Final Message
Ah, the great “purgatory” AU twist. Epilogue theory is incorrect, but “character epilogue” theory is just about the best way to describe it.
So the way I see it, “purgatory” is the way it was, at least in part because of Jughead. That’s how they “made it” that way, or at least how Jack made his post-death experience that way.
We are told LOST through Jack’s story (note: not through his eyes)
Key here is to point out that in many ways we see, at least this final AU, from Jacks perspective. The moving on happened where he was to send his father off, his father was there for them all as a Shephard of sorts, even the existence of his AU son reminds us of this. In fact, I’d expect fairly deep analysis about the character “David” and how it relates to Jack in the future. Think about Locke’s comments in the hospital “You don’t have a son.” Are we seeing the AU the way (spoiler alert for Shutter Island)….Shutter Island was? Hehe. I’m not saying that is necessarily true, but it’s something to ponder. Obviously we discover what the AU is…last, with Jack.
Something to think about…the role of Jack’s perspective as it relates to ours…not only in the final AU story but also throughout the entire AU and the entire series.
This is the story of LOST. The story of LOST is vast; we did not get it all; we experienced it through the story of Jack.
Remember, and Let Go
Now, obviously some characters were not even on the plane. Some characters pasts/realities in the AU are more (or less) different than Jack’s and revolve less around 815. This is why putting together the standard alt-reality was so tough. They don’t center on the same things, it’s unique to all of them.
Regardless of a characters proximity to Jack’s core story, they were all there to do exactly what Christian said they were, remember and let go. For those that “left” w/ Desmond and the crew he assembled, remembering and realizing the most important parts of their lives happened to stem from 815. They were connected all series, it was a major theme…it was “simply to be,” that the most important parts of their lives were intertwined around the plane crash to such a significant extent that they would “remember” life through each other and move on together in the afterlife.
So then we have some little insights…
So then we have some little insights into each characters core as they reunite with loved ones and close friends, little hints on what some people’s lives were like after the crash ect…Many move on, some aren’t ready yet.
Ben cannot move on until making peace with Alex and her mom, that’s why doesn’t go in the church. He cannot leave until he gets a chance for them to remember, and make peace with them. No small task.
Michael is stuck on island not in AU…unclear his fate but either way his “core” was tied into the rest but mainly tied to Walt. All sorts of interesting things to think about when you know Hurley is now the ruler of the island, what he could have done in the years to come to make the ones he knew happy.
Faraday must make peace with Charlotte and his mom likely must make peace with him ect….clues for almost all the characters are sitting, waiting to be analyzed throughout the series and certainly S6.
Conclusion
That’s basically my take on the AU. It was a reflection on who these people were, what was their purpose, and what was important to them, and how they realized it and moved on through their life to something else…in many ways it was the most significant meaning that could have possibly been given to the AU. It connects with the main story and strengthens it (not weakens it), and brings it into perspective, and brings it more closure.
As I said, I view all of LOST “in light of” Jacks story, and thus jughead is significant in shaping the Alt-verse to me, the way I understand the story. It did not literally create the AU (characters afterlife) but what it stood for (erasing what became Jacks destiny) is intricately tied to what the AU was (Jack remembering/reflecting on what gave his life purpose). Basically, I assign Jughead a vague uncertain role in the LOST, but certainly one that goes beyond a mere failed attempt to reset time.
One thing is for sure on LOST, they lived together, and they died together.
Desmond
Desmond is confusing to me. He was certainly confused about what happens when pulling the plug. He was somehow transmitted to “purgatory AU” via Widmore’s box…in a way he died? He confused what he saw there with what we sort of thought it might be (after jughead) and for some reason wanted to go there (he could be w/ Penny w/ out the pain of the island I guess and he saw others were happy).
He lived on after the end of Jack’s life, but had seen, somehow, the afterlife already. He was totally wrong about pulling the plug (what it would do), but he was right that it was what he needed to do, Jacob knew only then w/ the plug out, might MIB be mortal again. Either way, very interesting to think about what the rest of Desmond’s regular life was like after his exit from the island once and for all…after what he experienced. It is in an ironic “time loop”… to a place where there is no time…hehe…that he was able to sort of lead the charge to “move on” at least in part due to his experience with the afterlife while living. Sort of trippy.
Desmond plays one of the most important literary roles in LOST IMO, when thinking about a large scale “meaning.” Him, Jack, and Locke are sort of the representation of the overall show in my mind. Any “deep thinking” about LOST MUST go through those 3.
Alt-Reading: The Many Worlds
Well, I’ve heard (without confirmation) that the crash scene at the credits was all ABC and not even broadcast in other places. But, it cast initial confusion on me and I chalk it up to a “side theory” or an alt-interpretation of mine. The “many worlds” interpretation. They were dead when they crashed. The island was purgatory as well…or maybe even some form of hell.
Hell, maybe they were in some form of purgatory on the plane before the crash too…it’s all the same…the show is them moving through “life” (includes life, death, hell, purgatory, heaven…anything else) to find each other and fulfill their destiny of being together.
You could almost think of it as just a vague “seeping through the multi-verse” towards the “source.”
I don’t adopt this as a primary reading of the show, but a secondary reading like this is fun I think. And not as out there as it might seem, I’m sure someone could put together a more clear explanation of the show in this way than I will now.
Think about this: Where was Christian’s body in the Island-verse? No where…same as it was nowhere in the AU. ,
It’s important to point out, when thinking about the show like this, I don’t feel it’s necessary to point out what “was real” because it was all “real,” as Christian told Jack. Everything that happens to you is real. It’s more just taking the show one extra step into the crazy realm, and basically saying they were moving through a “process” the whole time and had more than one transition. Questions Darlton told us were important back in the day like “what is dead” instead of “are you dead” lend themselves to this sort of thinking…
“There is no now, here”
– Christian Shephard to Jack in the church
…..after all, only fools are enslaved by time and space
L O S T
Crazy finale. I thought it was solid at first, I like it more as time passes. Here are some thoughts I have about the finale and the show as a whole, one day after watching it all end. No doubt they will evolve and perhaps change all together over time.
Either way, I’d like to know what you all think, and where you are at following the end of LOST. There is no question debate will rage for some time. So in honor of LOST’s end, I post one of those massive posts that I often make fun of…believe it or not I tried to keep this short.
Once again, I’m not really holding back here. This is basically my “reading” of Lost, and I’d love to know how you feel about it and where you would differ in your understanding.
Surface level Lost: What was the story?
What was at stake? EVERYTHING!
Opening scene of S6: Island at the bottom of sea. Final reveal: they’re all dead in the AU. To me, in the end there is no question what the “stakes” really were in LOST…world destruction. In retrospect, this is the significance of that first scene of S6.
Basically, my take is fairly straight forward. There really is a place on earth where the “energy” that seems to “bind existence” (so to speak) is centered. This energy seems to effect time/space, and it also looks a lot like “heaven” looked when the Losties moved on. It is more or less, the core fabric binding our existence, and if it is allowed to leave the island, it’ll leave the world, and the world would end… at the very least.
The island is the cork, and the earth is the bottle, and island is keeping the light in the bottle. That is a more apt analogy than the one Richard got, for the purpose of our analysis. However, the “darkness” in many ways being the absence of light, unleashing that on the world if MIB puts the light out, is really the same thing.
It is unclear what the “world” is in the context of “the world ends if the light goes out” but it is suggested in many ways that all of the people would cease to exist, not merely die and enter their own “AU” working toward “moving on.” The light not only seems to bind space/time, but bind existence…including the place the Losties moved on to at the end. This is the way I view it, and when you look at it that way you realize MIB was beyond evil by the end of his life, he was every bit the darkness Jacob billed him as.
Continuing on….
There are “special” people in the world. These special people are in some cases more in touch with this energy/island. MIB was very special, turned into an immortal smoke monster and wanted to destroy the island and leave…he became “evil” over time. He lost his humanity to his own desires and of his own “choice,” not merely when Jacob tossed him in the well. He was, by the end of his life, nothing short of the nameless embodiment of anger, confusion, and the darkness in man.
Eventually he found a way to use Jacob’s own process of candidates against him as a loophole, tricking the “best” candidate who was correct about the island and special the whole time (Locke) and those around him (Ben, Richard ect…) to kill Jacob. Here at the end, it is now my final belief John Locke walked again on his own upon crashing on that island, and MIB discovered him has a tool for the first time when he saw him while he was hunting boar (already walking). John Locke was special. That’s my final reading of him. He was the direct MIB parallel (as was obvious by then end of S6), but he was able to let go of his anger when he found the island. He was flawed, he was wronged by many in his life, he knew love, loss of love, betrayal, ect…but he had the capacity to avoid being consumed by the darkness in spite of all this.
Because of this, Locke was able to have enough of an effect on Jack by the end that Jack was ready to take up his cause and do what the finale was: unplug the light (Des is the key for that), kill MIB, and plug the light back in (Jack is the key for that). Jack saved the characters, the island, and the world. Contrary to what MIB had so say, Jack certainly died “for something.” He brought peace to the war, and left the island to Hurley for safe-keeping, who understandably was a bit taken back by this at first… but I believe was quite well suited for this in the end.
That is basically what “surface level” Lost ended up being from what I gathered. The story of all these characters, and the fate of the world, but LOST is mainly the story of Jack. The man who sacrificed himself to protect EVERYTHING. Keep this in mind….
Characters Epilogue: The Final Message
Ah, the great “purgatory” AU twist. Epilogue theory is incorrect, but “character epilogue” theory is just about the best way to describe it.
So the way I see it, “purgatory” is the way it was, at least in part because of Jughead. That’s how they “made it” that way, or at least how Jack made his post-death experience that way.
We are told LOST through Jack’s story (note: not through his eyes)
Key here is to point out that in many ways we see, at least this final AU, from Jacks perspective. The moving on happened where he was to send his father off, his father was there for them all as a Shephard of sorts, even the existence of his AU son reminds us of this. In fact, I’d expect fairly deep analysis about the character “David” and how it relates to Jack in the future. Think about Locke’s comments in the hospital “You don’t have a son.” Are we seeing the AU the way (spoiler alert for Shutter Island)….Shutter Island was? Hehe. I’m not saying that is necessarily true, but it’s something to ponder. Obviously we discover what the AU is…last, with Jack.
Something to think about…the role of Jack’s perspective as it relates to ours…not only in the final AU story but also throughout the entire AU and the entire series.
This is the story of LOST. The story of LOST is vast; we did not get it all; we experienced it through the story of Jack.
Remember, and Let Go
Now, obviously some characters were not even on the plane. Some characters pasts/realities in the AU are more (or less) different than Jack’s and revolve less around 815. This is why putting together the standard alt-reality was so tough. They don’t center on the same things, it’s unique to all of them.
Regardless of a characters proximity to Jack’s core story, they were all there to do exactly what Christian said they were, remember and let go. For those that “left” w/ Desmond and the crew he assembled, remembering and realizing the most important parts of their lives happened to stem from 815. They were connected all series, it was a major theme…it was “simply to be,” that the most important parts of their lives were intertwined around the plane crash to such a significant extent that they would “remember” life through each other and move on together in the afterlife.
So then we have some little insights…
So then we have some little insights into each characters core as they reunite with loved ones and close friends, little hints on what some people’s lives were like after the crash ect…Many move on, some aren’t ready yet.
Ben cannot move on until making peace with Alex and her mom, that’s why doesn’t go in the church. He cannot leave until he gets a chance for them to remember, and make peace with them. No small task.
Michael is stuck on island not in AU…unclear his fate but either way his “core” was tied into the rest but mainly tied to Walt. All sorts of interesting things to think about when you know Hurley is now the ruler of the island, what he could have done in the years to come to make the ones he knew happy.
Faraday must make peace with Charlotte and his mom likely must make peace with him ect….clues for almost all the characters are sitting, waiting to be analyzed throughout the series and certainly S6.
Conclusion
That’s basically my take on the AU. It was a reflection on who these people were, what was their purpose, and what was important to them, and how they realized it and moved on through their life to something else…in many ways it was the most significant meaning that could have possibly been given to the AU. It connects with the main story and strengthens it (not weakens it), and brings it into perspective, and brings it more closure.
As I said, I view all of LOST “in light of” Jacks story, and thus jughead is significant in shaping the Alt-verse to me, the way I understand the story. It did not literally create the AU (characters afterlife) but what it stood for (erasing what became Jacks destiny) is intricately tied to what the AU was (Jack remembering/reflecting on what gave his life purpose). Basically, I assign Jughead a vague uncertain role in the LOST, but certainly one that goes beyond a mere failed attempt to reset time.
One thing is for sure on LOST, they lived together, and they died together.
Desmond
Desmond is confusing to me. He was certainly confused about what happens when pulling the plug. He was somehow transmitted to “purgatory AU” via Widmore’s box…in a way he died? He confused what he saw there with what we sort of thought it might be (after jughead) and for some reason wanted to go there (he could be w/ Penny w/ out the pain of the island I guess and he saw others were happy).
He lived on after the end of Jack’s life, but had seen, somehow, the afterlife already. He was totally wrong about pulling the plug (what it would do), but he was right that it was what he needed to do, Jacob knew only then w/ the plug out, might MIB be mortal again. Either way, very interesting to think about what the rest of Desmond’s regular life was like after his exit from the island once and for all…after what he experienced. It is in an ironic “time loop”… to a place where there is no time…hehe…that he was able to sort of lead the charge to “move on” at least in part due to his experience with the afterlife while living. Sort of trippy.
Desmond plays one of the most important literary roles in LOST IMO, when thinking about a large scale “meaning.” Him, Jack, and Locke are sort of the representation of the overall show in my mind. Any “deep thinking” about LOST MUST go through those 3.
Alt-Reading: The Many Worlds
Well, I’ve heard (without confirmation) that the crash scene at the credits was all ABC and not even broadcast in other places. But, it cast initial confusion on me and I chalk it up to a “side theory” or an alt-interpretation of mine. The “many worlds” interpretation. They were dead when they crashed. The island was purgatory as well…or maybe even some form of hell.
Hell, maybe they were in some form of purgatory on the plane before the crash too…it’s all the same…the show is them moving through “life” (includes life, death, hell, purgatory, heaven…anything else) to find each other and fulfill their destiny of being together.
You could almost think of it as just a vague “seeping through the multi-verse” towards the “source.”
I don’t adopt this as a primary reading of the show, but a secondary reading like this is fun I think. And not as out there as it might seem, I’m sure someone could put together a more clear explanation of the show in this way than I will now.
Think about this: Where was Christian’s body in the Island-verse? No where…same as it was nowhere in the AU. ,
It’s important to point out, when thinking about the show like this, I don’t feel it’s necessary to point out what “was real” because it was all “real,” as Christian told Jack. Everything that happens to you is real. It’s more just taking the show one extra step into the crazy realm, and basically saying they were moving through a “process” the whole time and had more than one transition. Questions Darlton told us were important back in the day like “what is dead” instead of “are you dead” lend themselves to this sort of thinking…
“There is no now, here”
– Christian Shephard to Jack in the church
…..after all, only fools are enslaved by time and space
L O S T