AU and the Bomb

[witheyesclosed]

A few things that have me mixed on whether the bomb caused it.

For:
Roger saying that maybe things would be different had they stayed

Daniel saying that he already detonated one




Against:
entire island being underwater with statue intact

chang not recognizing that hurley man of the year, was on island



Getting sleepy but let me know what else you guys think or what you can add to the list. Maybe this is where they get to live out their life without the influence of Jacob and mib. Or what they get for siding with either of the two. Or simply an AU created by the bomb.

[monsterjester]

I'm fairly certain the bomb DID cause the AU, but did NOT sink the island. The energy from the bomb CREATED the AU, rather than just simply blowing up. So the sunken island wasn't nuked, but was probably sunk by the electromagnetism the DHARMA Initiative drilled into. As others have pointed out, since 815 never crashes in the AU, the Losties never go back in time and detonate Jughead, so nothing interrupted the DI drilling at the Swan site. But maybe there's more to what sunk the island; as we've seen many Others and DI members had time to escape the island, whatever sank it.

[witheyesclosed]

But that doesn't explain statue still standing. Meaning no Alpert.

[spinaltumor]

That statue wasn't standing. It was just a foot.

[witheyesclosed]

Oh alright. Could have sworn it was up. But still doesn't explain why chang isn't surprised at seeing hurley. Or why nothing was mentioned about a possibly conversation between chang and au hurley.

[witheyesclosed]

Or maybe that's someone they go back to when they figure out what happened. Remember what he said to the man drilling. Can't go back and kill hitler, there are rules.

Maybe he can help find another pocket somewhere else.

[spinaltumor]

I'm not sure I get where you're confused. As monsterjester said, and as I've said other places on the forums, if the bomb worked...then the Swan hatch is never built to release electromagnetic energy every 108 minutes...so 815 never crashes...so no one who was on Flight 815 ever time flashes back to the 1950's or '70s or any of that. The sideways world depicts that. Chang doesn't know Hurley because in the sideways, Hurley never time traveled. Hurley is presumably not even Hurley! He's just Hugo.

They've all lived almost entirely different lives never affected by 815 crashing. Not just those on 815 either. Everyone is affected by never knowing the Losties via time travel or otherwise.

At this point the strong theory for the sideways is that the DI came to the Island as per usual, but when they drilled into the pocket, it started going haywire as we saw in the Incident. But, without any Losties there to detonate a bomb, nothing could stop it even for a little while. The DI must have all evacuated (and the Others as well), and the Island proceeded to sink beneath the water. As if the magnetic energy pulled the whole Island down.

[witheyesclosed]

I understand all that. I'm just saying that it sounds conflicting up to this point.

Yeah the bomb might have caused the split, but for the AU. Don't know how to explain it but let me start with Roger and Ben. We know they got off, just don't know why yet. Hugo might not have been able to go back and cause the crash. But wouldn't chang and all those on the island carry the experience of the losties with them in this new timeline? I'll keep thinking about how to explain it but if everything was the same up to that point, the memories from before would remain. And if it did cause the AU, it's only because they can't live in that timeline, reason for flashing back to their time.

And what I also wonder is, who was on the island and what happened from 2004 to 2007 actual time period? Some were on mainland, others were jumping to past.

[spinaltumor]

No, Chang and all those on the Island would not carry the experience of the Losties, because the Losties never crashed so they never time traveled back to the '70s. Not everything was the same up until the bomb, because the Losties never time traveled so they never were there so event unfolded differently as far back as the Losties ever time traveled.

On the Island from 2004 to 2007...you mean in the Island timeline? Like, what happened after the O6 left and before Ajira landed? My guess is not much of anything interesting. The Others ruled the roast. They abandoned New Otherton so it fell into disrepair. Claire was crazy. Probably pretty dull stuff.

[witheyesclosed]

They would have to remember. There's one where chang makes the videos and one where he goes off the island. You never think that Enter 77 is just that because there were hostiles that set everything off that year? It's like Alpert knowing that Locke was with the others for more than just killing his dad (when he gives him sawyer's folder).

Something a bit more interesting than that had to have happened. Just don't like the fact that both Ben and Locke turn the wheel and somehow skip 3 years of there lives. Don't know but, 3 years is a lot of time for them to not be there.

[spinaltumor]

Huh? I don't think I understand you.

Locke skipped three years, but Ben only skipped about 9-10 months or something like that.... The woman in Tunisia said it was 2005. Ben spent the time afterwards using Sayid to kill off all his enemies.

[witheyesclosed]

Have some time to explain. Here I go:

So like you and jester say, bomb likely created the AU. If the bomb created it, then they were around to crash on the island and then detonate the bomb. Only that's where the timeline splits.

We have one universe where they get sent back to their real time and another where events from that point play out differently.

So the real one goes like this. They send everyone off island. Others stay there. Chang makes videos including flame video that Locke sees after chess game, enter 77. In that he says if there was hostile incursion, press 77 (same as the year that the incident happened). The swan video also warns them to enter the numbers as to prevent another incident, but in reality to prevent the actual incident. So after everyones off, we know rest of this story and they do land on island, go back in time, cause incident.

In the other, the energy creates a seperate universe. All those that are from 1977 move on in a different direction. The losties go back to their timeline and possibly the island does sink resulting in everyone leaving the island. Chang raises miles (who doesn't have his ability I'm guessing?), Ben raised by a caring dad, Daniel raised as a musician. Plane lands back in LA, and it's a different life for everyone so far but Kate. With desmonds help they realize that they were something else.



But still haven't seen Alpert or any sign of Jacob and mib in this AU so maybe it's simply life without them.

And as for Locke and Ben skipping in time, I just don't see how you can go without living out that time. Oceanic 6 went real time. Sawyer and the rest time travelled but they spent the duration in the past. Why was it a different amount of time if they did the same thing (moving wheel)? Just weird Locke leaves for a few months and comes back to the island dead when it's been 3 years for everyone else.

[spinaltumor]

Apr 23, 2010 21:40:28 GMT -5 witheyesclosed said:

In the other, the energy creates a seperate universe. All those that are from 1977 move on in a different direction.

Ok, see...that's where the difference is in the thinking.

You're looking at the timeline like a tuning fork, yeah? I'm not.
The sideways is its own universe; it's its own timeline. From beginning to end. The bomb just created a pathway into this parallel universe.
In one universe, the plane crashed. In another, it didn't. So Chang wouldn't remember anything. He's led a different, albeit similar, life. But it's separate from the Island timeline completely. No time-traveling Miles included.

[monsterjester]

Exactly. The timelines are not "parallel." The alternate timeline was created when the bomb went off, independent of the original timeline(AT). At first I thought they were running parallel also, but I think it's Daniel's exposition about thinking he's already detonated a nuclear bomb to create the AT explained it. Detonating the bomb created the AT, but whithin the AT the bomb never exploded, since that release of energy is what created the AT itself. So in this "alternate" timeline there were no Losties set to bring Jughead to the Swan and blow it up. I think it's a paradox; the thing that created the AT never happened whithin the AT, hence it's fake and weird and people related to what caused it can become aware of the discrepancy in times of high stress (near death, love). It really bakes my noodle.

[witheyesclosed]

Yeah I suppose. Best to just see how they explain it. Don't know if I dreamt it but my gf said that some theatres would have a lost discussion playing may 20. Heard anything about it?