Post by LongLiveLocke on Nov 10, 2009 15:49:25 GMT -5
Hi all,
I'm a long-time listener to the podcast, but this is my first time on the forums. I just sent Jay and Jack an e-mail about my thoughts on Locke and whether or not he should have a redemptive story, and I thought I'd share it with you guys to find out your thoughts. I don't know... this has probably been discussed to death here, and I don't know whether or not there's anything new here, but I guess the worst that can happen is this thread will fall into oblivion. Anyway, here's the e-mail...
Jay and Jack,
Hey, long time listener first time e-mailer. I've been missing the lack of Locke debate on the show for the past two weeks, so I thought I'd throw a little fuel on the fire. I've been wanting to write for a while now because I've been becoming increasingly frustrated with Jack's callous attitude towards Locke and the surprising level of support he's been getting from listeners who share this attitude. So I thought now would be as good a time as any to write in with my thoughts, although I think they'll be a little too long to read on the air. In short... Jay, I think you're (mostly) right, and Jack, I think you're (mostly) wrong.
The way I see it, the major issue is this: Does Locke deserve his redemption? Jack, you say that Locke was always a pawn, used and cast aside. I agree 100%, but that is the very reason Locke deserves his redemption. You speak as if Locke's physical healing was his redemption and that he screwed it up and now doesn't deserve redemption because he acted so selfishly. You have said that Locke should just "get over it" and accept the fact that he's not important at all, just a sad man with a sad life. But this contention merely indicates a profound lack of understanding of the character and what he's been through. So let me lay it out for you...
The two deepest emotional and spiritual needs of every human being are security and significance: the security of being loved and accepted simply for who we are, and the significance of knowing that our lives count for something, that we have some kind of purpose. When we first meet Locke, back when he's working in a department store, we meet a man who has been deprived of these two deep needs. Given up by his parents, passed around in foster care, never wanted or loved enough to be adopted, rejected by his peers, he knew nothing of love or acceptance. And stuck in a completely meaningless job, living a dull, purposeless life. And he seemed resigned to this fact. Then out of nowhere, a ray of hope: his mother appears, telling him he's special, and he meets his father who for the first time gives him what he's most profoundly desperate for: the security of being loved and accepted as a son. Then he discovers he was just a tool for both his mother and his father to get what they want... that he means nothing to them and remains completely unloved. It's like a man blind from birth being given his sight for just a few weeks so he can know what he's missing out on, then being blinded again for the rest of his life. Imagine, Jack, the pain of being used and cast aside by your own parents, the very ones who are supposed to love you unconditionally. It would be soul-destroying. For the next few years, we see Locke desperately trying to fill this empty place in his soul by seeking love and acceptance elsewhere, from the drug-dealing friends he falls in with to the love of his life, Helen. And in all cases, Locke again experiences rejection and abandonment. Finally Locke's father tries to murder him, and although Locke survives, a part of him dies... the part that seeks human love and acceptance. We again see giving up and resignation.
So since his parents and the rest of humanity have rejected him, what does he have left? The other deepest need: significance. That's where he is when we meet him in "Walkabout". Oh, he's still seeking a little love and acceptance, from a distance, with a phone-sex worker, who again rejects him. But for the most part he's now a man on a mission to find his significance. But he's kicked off the walkabout tour, and when we see him getting on Oceanic 815, he again seems like a destroyed man, resigned to his meaningless life. But then again, out of nowhere, there is a sudden ray of hope: he crashes on the island and can walk again. What's more, he begins to be teased with hints that he is someone incredibly important, someone with a great and wonderful purpose. Just as his father showed him what life could be like with love and acceptance, so the island is showing him what life could be like with significance and purpose.
But undergirding this great hope in Locke is a constant fear: a fear that it's all going to be taken away again, that he's just being used again like his father used him. And it's at these moments when everything seems to be unraveling that we see Locke's raw need, fear and desperation. And this is where I'll agree with you, Jack: At these moments, Locke does tend to act selfishly, and it's the one thing that prevents him from being a great leader. I would argue that we see glimpses of great leadership in Locke, and they're always at the times when he's most confident in his purpose. When the curtain begins to be pulled away and he thinks it might all be a sham, that's when his leadership falls apart and he begins to act selfishly. But I don't think you can argue that the POTENTIAL to be a great leader is certainly there. One of the things I like most about Locke's style of leadership (when it's good) is his willingness to let people decide for themselves and to accept the counsel of others. Jack tends to reach decisions on his own and stubbornly sticks to them to the end even when it becomes apparent that circumstances may have changed. So my argument is this: if Locke were truly given an important purpose that wasn't just a sham, he would be a great leader.
And here's the sad thing: Apparently, it IS just a sham. The end of season 5 shows us that Locke was again being used all along and has again been cast aside. And so the man who has suffered in the deepest and most profound ways out of anyone on the island is the one man robbed of any kind of redemption. Precisely because he has suffered the most, his redemption would have been the most powerful story of all. So if this is truly the end of his story, I think it's a missed opportunity. While I don't agree with Jay that it would be lazy writing (in fact, there's a twisted genius in it), I must say I would be incredibly disappointed if this is it for Locke. Locke has been robbed of the two deepest human needs, security and significance, and I want to see him given these two things that most of the rest of us take for granted. Jack, I think the thing that bothers me the most about your argument is that you underestimate the impact on the human soul of being denied these two things. It's not something Locke can just "get over", and your statement to the effect that Locke now doesn't deserve redemption because he "screwed up" the opportunity he was given is totally off-base. Sure, he acted selfishly at times... but so has everyone on the island (after all, they're human). The difference is that in his case the behavior is more understandable in light of his back story than in any other case.
Anyway, like I said, this is way too long to read on the air, but I hope it at least provides some food for thought. To summarize, my biggest issue with Jack's opinion is that it underestimates the depth of the emotional trauma that Locke has suffered and fails to show compassion to a man who suffered more than any man ought. He did nothing to deserve the bitter hand life dealt him, and he deserves better than what he's gotten. If the end of John Locke is lying dead on the sand, again a tool used and cast aside, it will be the biggest disappointment of the series. He deserves his redemption more than anyone else on the island. He deserves to find his purpose and to discover that it's great and wonderful. I remain hopeful that Jacob is in fact a good guy, and that he still has some greater purpose for Locke. My hope is that Locke still has some important role to play, and that he will be "the one who saves us all."
If not... it's not lazy... it's just gonna suck.
Regards,
Chad
I'm a long-time listener to the podcast, but this is my first time on the forums. I just sent Jay and Jack an e-mail about my thoughts on Locke and whether or not he should have a redemptive story, and I thought I'd share it with you guys to find out your thoughts. I don't know... this has probably been discussed to death here, and I don't know whether or not there's anything new here, but I guess the worst that can happen is this thread will fall into oblivion. Anyway, here's the e-mail...
Jay and Jack,
Hey, long time listener first time e-mailer. I've been missing the lack of Locke debate on the show for the past two weeks, so I thought I'd throw a little fuel on the fire. I've been wanting to write for a while now because I've been becoming increasingly frustrated with Jack's callous attitude towards Locke and the surprising level of support he's been getting from listeners who share this attitude. So I thought now would be as good a time as any to write in with my thoughts, although I think they'll be a little too long to read on the air. In short... Jay, I think you're (mostly) right, and Jack, I think you're (mostly) wrong.
The way I see it, the major issue is this: Does Locke deserve his redemption? Jack, you say that Locke was always a pawn, used and cast aside. I agree 100%, but that is the very reason Locke deserves his redemption. You speak as if Locke's physical healing was his redemption and that he screwed it up and now doesn't deserve redemption because he acted so selfishly. You have said that Locke should just "get over it" and accept the fact that he's not important at all, just a sad man with a sad life. But this contention merely indicates a profound lack of understanding of the character and what he's been through. So let me lay it out for you...
The two deepest emotional and spiritual needs of every human being are security and significance: the security of being loved and accepted simply for who we are, and the significance of knowing that our lives count for something, that we have some kind of purpose. When we first meet Locke, back when he's working in a department store, we meet a man who has been deprived of these two deep needs. Given up by his parents, passed around in foster care, never wanted or loved enough to be adopted, rejected by his peers, he knew nothing of love or acceptance. And stuck in a completely meaningless job, living a dull, purposeless life. And he seemed resigned to this fact. Then out of nowhere, a ray of hope: his mother appears, telling him he's special, and he meets his father who for the first time gives him what he's most profoundly desperate for: the security of being loved and accepted as a son. Then he discovers he was just a tool for both his mother and his father to get what they want... that he means nothing to them and remains completely unloved. It's like a man blind from birth being given his sight for just a few weeks so he can know what he's missing out on, then being blinded again for the rest of his life. Imagine, Jack, the pain of being used and cast aside by your own parents, the very ones who are supposed to love you unconditionally. It would be soul-destroying. For the next few years, we see Locke desperately trying to fill this empty place in his soul by seeking love and acceptance elsewhere, from the drug-dealing friends he falls in with to the love of his life, Helen. And in all cases, Locke again experiences rejection and abandonment. Finally Locke's father tries to murder him, and although Locke survives, a part of him dies... the part that seeks human love and acceptance. We again see giving up and resignation.
So since his parents and the rest of humanity have rejected him, what does he have left? The other deepest need: significance. That's where he is when we meet him in "Walkabout". Oh, he's still seeking a little love and acceptance, from a distance, with a phone-sex worker, who again rejects him. But for the most part he's now a man on a mission to find his significance. But he's kicked off the walkabout tour, and when we see him getting on Oceanic 815, he again seems like a destroyed man, resigned to his meaningless life. But then again, out of nowhere, there is a sudden ray of hope: he crashes on the island and can walk again. What's more, he begins to be teased with hints that he is someone incredibly important, someone with a great and wonderful purpose. Just as his father showed him what life could be like with love and acceptance, so the island is showing him what life could be like with significance and purpose.
But undergirding this great hope in Locke is a constant fear: a fear that it's all going to be taken away again, that he's just being used again like his father used him. And it's at these moments when everything seems to be unraveling that we see Locke's raw need, fear and desperation. And this is where I'll agree with you, Jack: At these moments, Locke does tend to act selfishly, and it's the one thing that prevents him from being a great leader. I would argue that we see glimpses of great leadership in Locke, and they're always at the times when he's most confident in his purpose. When the curtain begins to be pulled away and he thinks it might all be a sham, that's when his leadership falls apart and he begins to act selfishly. But I don't think you can argue that the POTENTIAL to be a great leader is certainly there. One of the things I like most about Locke's style of leadership (when it's good) is his willingness to let people decide for themselves and to accept the counsel of others. Jack tends to reach decisions on his own and stubbornly sticks to them to the end even when it becomes apparent that circumstances may have changed. So my argument is this: if Locke were truly given an important purpose that wasn't just a sham, he would be a great leader.
And here's the sad thing: Apparently, it IS just a sham. The end of season 5 shows us that Locke was again being used all along and has again been cast aside. And so the man who has suffered in the deepest and most profound ways out of anyone on the island is the one man robbed of any kind of redemption. Precisely because he has suffered the most, his redemption would have been the most powerful story of all. So if this is truly the end of his story, I think it's a missed opportunity. While I don't agree with Jay that it would be lazy writing (in fact, there's a twisted genius in it), I must say I would be incredibly disappointed if this is it for Locke. Locke has been robbed of the two deepest human needs, security and significance, and I want to see him given these two things that most of the rest of us take for granted. Jack, I think the thing that bothers me the most about your argument is that you underestimate the impact on the human soul of being denied these two things. It's not something Locke can just "get over", and your statement to the effect that Locke now doesn't deserve redemption because he "screwed up" the opportunity he was given is totally off-base. Sure, he acted selfishly at times... but so has everyone on the island (after all, they're human). The difference is that in his case the behavior is more understandable in light of his back story than in any other case.
Anyway, like I said, this is way too long to read on the air, but I hope it at least provides some food for thought. To summarize, my biggest issue with Jack's opinion is that it underestimates the depth of the emotional trauma that Locke has suffered and fails to show compassion to a man who suffered more than any man ought. He did nothing to deserve the bitter hand life dealt him, and he deserves better than what he's gotten. If the end of John Locke is lying dead on the sand, again a tool used and cast aside, it will be the biggest disappointment of the series. He deserves his redemption more than anyone else on the island. He deserves to find his purpose and to discover that it's great and wonderful. I remain hopeful that Jacob is in fact a good guy, and that he still has some greater purpose for Locke. My hope is that Locke still has some important role to play, and that he will be "the one who saves us all."
If not... it's not lazy... it's just gonna suck.
Regards,
Chad
