Interesting e-mails

[Jack]

Mike




Jay & Jack,

Look guys, I'm listening to your most recent episode right now, and I had to pause during your big theory debate to refresh your minds on a few things:

You guys are making WAY too many assumptions about how the finer things work on Lost. For example, we DO NOT really know what the smokey "scanning" thing is all about. We also don't really know what Jacob's Touch is all about.

Even more importantly, we're forgetting that some of these characters have some very spiritual/supernatural traits. Smokey can't simply kill people. There is some godly force at work that is keeping him at bay.

Here Jack, let me break it down in simple terms. Think about Vampires. Pretty evil, right? Well put some garlic or a cross in their face, and they can't touch you. It may not be garlic causing it, but smokey CAN'T kill Jacob himself. He's always needed a loophole. And that blond-haired kid in the woods told him that he knows the rules, "you can't kill him." Considering Jacob was ALREADY dead, he had to have meant the candidate he happened to be with, Sawyer.

So, all this yelling and commotion about "why doesn't he just kill everyone" is because he can't. Much like Sayid shoving a knife in Locke's chest, it just won't happen. Can smokey actually kill candidates himself? No. He needs to trick them.

I became a believer in the "theory that Jack doesn't stop talking about but when it gets brought up he really quickly says that it's not HIS theory" theory. However, the last few episodes use so many story arcs that highlight the two characters as individuals with individual traits.

The way this story is being presented is setting us up for one of two things: a big plot twist at the end where Jack is right and the two are one in the same, or it'll end where they aren't. With the constant good vs. bad themes and story archetypes going on, the scale is heavily tipping towards them being separate entities.

Also, your caller was wrong, Ricardo's Bible was flipped open to Luke 4 (not 14), verse 27. It said something about Lepers in some city. Maybe it was important. I doubt it matters, the Bible was just a simple plot device anyways, right?

For the sake of making this email even longer, I'm sharing my theory of the show:

* MiB is hell/evil incarnate, trying to escape into the world to corrupt it.
* Jacob represents good, and much like other characters in religious history, will do many things for the sake of good. His job, as he plainly says, is to keep evil from spreading into the world.
* The island exists outside of our normal time/space. Exactly like Jacob's Suite/Club Foot, as he told Ricardo, people have to be invited to get there.
* Jacob as a person is dead. The entity that he represents is still in effect until there is no one to take over Jacob's role. This is because Jacob is not the original Jacob. He was once a candidate too, you know.
* Smokey needs to either get all the candidates to be on his side/give their souls to him, or to have loopholes kill them off in some fashion. With Jacob being dead and no one to take over, he can freely leave, there is no counter-balance anymore.
* It's possible that MiB can be killed just like Jacob. And that's how it'll end, with a meta-Jacob character (like Jack, let's say), killing Locke. They may have to sacrifice themselves to get everyone off the island (a very Jack thing to do), and sink the island once and for all.
* The alternate reality is simply real life. Their lives have been affected by the island events. It also co-exists with the island, since time is circular. Or it's a series of tubes, or whatever it's supposed to be.

The best part is, my theory is totally bogus. We still don't know the origins of the statue, probably the civilization that is responsible for it, and a boatload of other detail-intensive holes in the plot. Heck, maybe smokey is just a dark genie that needs a lamp, like Jafar from the Aladdin movies.

This email isn't intended to be read on the air, it's WAY too long for that. I know what it's like to get novels in my podcast email box, then try and pare it down. No fun. Just thought I'd exchange ideas on the show. Thanks!

[Jack]

Hey guys. What an unbelievable episode this week! I'm not really one to write or call in with my thoughts but this episode was just too amazing to stay mum. So here goes.

I will admit that I'm still on the fence about whether or not MIB and Jacob are the same person. One thing that I do believe without a doubt is that it isn't as black and white as one is good and one is evil. I do not think MIB is completely bad and I do not think Jacob is completely good. I posted my thoughts on this topic in more depth on Yublog (under the name touchedbyjacob) so you can read that there. Right now I want to point out some things from this episode that supports the idea that MIB and Jacob could be the same person.

When MIB comes to Richard's aid the first thing he does is TOUCH him! So far we have only seen Jacob touch people - but now MIB is too.

The fact that MIB gives Richard the EXACT same speech (seriously it was basically word for word) that Dogan gives to Sayid. Assuming that Jacob was the one that originally instructed Dogan on this, it isn't coincidence that both Jacob and MIB would give the same instructions - and the fact that they both have the same dagger - come on....

I also think that there is something to the fact that Smokey doesn't kill everyone he encounters. I was questioning why Smokey didn't kill Richard in the BR after he killed everyone else. And I don't think he takes the time to scan everyone before killing them either (sorry Jay) therefore he must have had a reason to stop and scan Richard and then not kill him. The thought did go through my head that this would make sense if MIB/Smokey was Jacob - Jacob had a purpose for Richard and therefore Smokey wanted Richard too. Obviously he wasn't going to kill him.

Like I said before I'm still not going to say I'm convinced that they are indeed the same person. But if I choose to look for the clues they are there episode after episode. Enough so that I won't be shocked if this turns out to be true.

One last thing - as I wrote on Yublog - Lost is just one big fate debate! (To coin a phrase from the Flash Forcast guys! : )

I think what we have here are two different perspectives on the human condition and both think they are right and the other is wrong - when in reality BOTH are right -
MIB believes that it is simply human nature to be corrupt and sinful.
Jacob believes that when given the choice people can of their own free will choose good over evil.

I think that it will NEVER be revealed that one is good and the other is bad because it’s just one big fate debate that can only be answered on a personal level - therefore it is up to us the viewers to decide who is good and who is bad. The show itself will not answer this for us.

Well this is what I had to get off my mind. Love the show and the podcast! Later.

~Tasha : )

[Jack]

Hi Jay and Jack!
I loved this week’s episode (Ab Aeterno). It was definitely one of the most revealing so far and it answered so many questions!
However, there are two things that still bother me concerning the way the Black Rock crashed on the island:
There is no way that a ship sailing from the Canary Islands to America would ever just “end up” in the middle of the Pacific Ocean!
When Jacob and MiB are talking on the beach in “The Incident, Part I”, it’s a beautiful, sunny day and we see a ship on the horizon that everyone assumes is the Black Rock. However, in “Ab Aeterno”, we see that the Black Rock actually crashed on the island during a massive storm.
So here’s what I think:
In “LaFleur”, when Locke falls down the well at the orchid station, Sawyer & co. look up and they see the statue in the distance for the first time. I think that this is happening at the same time as Jacob and MiB’s conversation on the beach. At that point in time, the island was actually in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. But when Locke turned the frozen wheel, three things happened:
Locke was transported to the Tunisian desert.
Sawyer & co. were sent forward in time to 1974.
and most importantly, the island, along with the Black Rock, were moved to the Pacific Ocean where there was a violent storm which caused the ship to crash.
Anyway, that's my crackpot theory, and I'm sticking to it!


Keep up the good work, I love your show!


Robin from Québec, Canada

[Jack]

Jay & Jack

Hopefully this gets to you in time for today's podcast
Before watching this week's episode I was wondering if it was going to focus on Richard's place in the mythology, or focus on developing his character. It was certainly nice to see that the show could do both at once and exceed expectations while doing so.

First off, I want to address the issue of the Bible passage that was shown, or not shown as the case may be. One of the callers in the last show said that it was in Luke chapter 14. It wasn't, she mistook a bracket for a 1. Buddy TV correctly identified it as chapter 4, but said that it focused on verse 37. Verse 37 was on the heading of the page, but not actually shown. What was shown was the top of the second column of the page which started with verse 24. I that the intent was to get us to look at what would have preceded that on the bottom of the first column, because that would be Luke 4:23, both chapter and verse being of the Numbers.

"And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country"

Now, onto my main point. You're both wrong, and you're both right. Jacob and MiB/MiL/DWG/whatever the hell you want to call him are two different people. Think about it this way, Jack, if the theory that you support is correct, then it would have to be explained in order for the audience to not be disgusted and unsatisfied with the close of the series. Lost does best when showing the answers rather than telling them. Even spoken explainations of the mysteries of the series tend to be short and sweet and are best when coupled with visuals (like a wine bottle). There is no way that Jacob and Man in Locke can be shown to be one and the same both adequately and elegantly. I tend to check any strange theories against this philosophy. I call it the "That would be dumb" rule.

That being said, Jack is right in the only thing good about Jacob are his intentions, and I think we all know the one about good intentions. let's count the ways:
1) He brings messed up people to the island to prove some point, and expects them to suddenly be fixed without intervention. That's just stupid.
2) He admits that they keep dying, yet he keeps bring more people, making him a defacto murderer as well as a kidnapper.
3) He claims that their pasts don't matter on the island, something that Locke said in Season 1, and we all know what a fool he turned out to be. If there's anything Lost has shown us, it's that you can't escape your past. You might overcome it, but your past always has bearing on who you are, not just who you were.
4) Even if the people he brought to the island did as Jacob hoped, then what? They're stuck on an island in the middle of nowhere, unable to have a positive effect on the society that they left and in some cases hurt.

Now, as for the island being a cork keepin Hell/Evil/Malevolence/etc. in, I think the flash-sideways disprove that. The island is gone in that timeline, and most of the characters seem better for it.

Another clue I think was in the scene where Whatshisname tasks Richard with killing Jacob. It almost perfectly matches the scene where Dogen tasks Sayid with killing "Locke". I think the purpose of this is to get us to think of the two in the same light, neither one better than the other.

My theory: the candidates (or at least some of them) will eventually understand that both Jacob and his enemy need to be opposed and do so, making the world a better place for it. This is the battle between Good and Evil that Damon and Carlton refer to, not the conflict between Jacob and "Locke".

Thanks for your time, and love the show,
Eric

[Jack]

Jay and Jack: LOVE THE SHOW! Please keep up the great work.

So, Tuesday's episode took us for a theological/philosophical spin down Island-way, but I think part of that is a literary hat-trick. LOST has been consistent in telling a real story, in the physical world. I think that's how the end-game will play out.

For example, MIB: if MIB says that "I am the smoke thing", then we take him literally. He is not Locke, he is not Shephard (perhaps), or any other dead dude. He is an actual smoke thing, and that's it, literally. Where is the smoke thing? Well, it lives below-ground. So, it lives below the island. The island is the cork, so it traps smokey below. The "cork in a bottle", is not a metaphor. The island is an actual cork. Remember the ending to JJ Abrams Alias? Well in Alias, our nemesis Arvin Sloan was trapped below a mountain, for eternity. Perhaps this is the same theme, evolved. MIB said he had his humanity taken away, so he was somehow, a man, stripped of his body, and now, he is this smoke. He is alive, he is real, but he is unhuman, without a body, and captured below-ground.

In terms of his manifesting as Flocke, and other dead people, I think it is a mirage of sorts. The storyline is ripe with symbolism of mirrors. Flocke is an illusion created by smokey, smoke and mirrors (pun intended), which would explain why he was not killed when Sayid stabbed him.

Like all of us, MIB does good things, he does bad things, but why does he do them? What motivates? Well, I it isn't even close to 'evil'. Evil would be doing bad things just for fun, or because it is the evil-things very nature. That's not Smokey. He is not a believer in evil, but in consequentialism, in other words, he believes that the ends justify the means. Clearly, what motivates him, is that he is a prisoner...A prisoner below the island. As a prisoner, he is doing what he needs to do, in order to escape. I'm more concerned about being manipulated, crashing people on the island, killing people off as a game over thousands of years, just to prove a point. That seems pretty harsh (Jacob). If MIB is evil, and must be contained, then Jacob makes sense. If MIB is a false-prisoner, or is smokey because of Jacobs prison, well that changes the end-game for me.

My thoughts on MIB. Please keep up the awesome podcast. LOVE THE SHOW.

Sincerely, Tom

[Jack]

Hello Jay and Jack,

As the subject suggests, you don't have to watch the show any more because I've figured out the deal with Jacob, MiB, and the Island. Are you sitting down? Good. Here it is. Jacob is the evil that the island is holding in place. Whoa! I just blew your mind, right? Here are the pieces of the puzzle and how I see they fit together. It all starts with the creepy kid in the jungle that MiB ran into. One of the theories out there is that he is a young Jacob. I agree. What is significant about him? His hands are covered in blood. This usually symbolizes an act of evil, most commonly murder. So Jacob and MiB are chillin' in ancient Egypt when Jacob does something greatly evil the result of which MiB dies. (MiB: "He took my body") MiB's mother was an Egyptian sorceress. (MiB: "I had a crazy mother") Through her magic and the Egyptian ritual of burial she binds Jacob to the island as punishment and also binds her son, MiB, to the island to protect it and keep Jacob there. (The temple with the Egyptian hieroglyphics) Adam and Eve could possibly be Jacob and MiB's mummified bodies that somewhere along the line were moved from the temple to the caves? (A stretch, but possible) Being a spirit bound to the island MiB is able to take the form of dead people in his duty as protector of the island as well as his spirit form of the black smoke monster. After several centuries being stuck on the island Jacob comes to be repentant of his evil and finds a loophole to his imprisonment. He can be free of his binding if he can find someone who, despite their evil past chooses to do good on the island thereby proving that he too can have changed his ways. MiB at first wants to see him successful in this because it would mean his freedom as well and helps him, but after many, many failed attempts looses confidence. (There are 360 degrees in a circle. If we are down to the last 6 that's a lot of failed attempts) MiB decides it is never going to happen and loses hope even though Jacob still brings people to the island to try. (MiB: "It always ends the same. They come, they fight, they die." Jacob: "It only ends once. Everything else is just progress") MiB then decides he wants off the island by any means and hatches a plan to find his own loophole. (MiB: "You know how badly I want to kill you?") He can't kill Jacob because he is bound to guard him. The "rules" are defined by the spell/rites that bound them to the island. Jacob knows that if MiB kills him his spirit will still be bound to the island and in turn so will MiB's so the candidates are not for the sake of taking Jacob's place but in reality are being set up to still fulfill Jacob's loophole even if MiB does kill him. (Jacob: "Even if you kill me others will take my place") MiB doesn't care about Jacob's redemption but only getting off the island so his plan is to destroy the island to free his spirit, symbolized by his breaking the wine bottle. (The island is underwater in the flash sideways)

So the Lost we have been watching all this time has been Jacob trying to prove man can do good in spite of a past of evil so as to free his spirit from his imprisonment on the island. He can't directly influence people in their actions because then it wouldn't be a genuine act of good of their own free will. Yes he brings them to the island without their free will in choosing to come, but then once they are there he doesn't interfere. I had a lot more examples of evidence to support this theory thinking about it at work today, but wouldn't you know sitting here to type it out they escape me. Oh well, the main points are there. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Daniel in PA
aka Melchizedec

[Jack]

Jay and Jack-

There were many lines we've heard before and actions repeated and such. Isabella tells Richard "we'll always be together" and Jin's wedding ring that Sun gave him said, "we'll never be apart." Alpert learned English to go to the New World with Isabella; Sun learned English to either escape from Jin or start anew with him-can't remember-in LA. You discussed the dagger and Dogen telling Sayid what MIB told Richard to do. Isabella said she looked into his eyes (smoke? MIB?) and saw evil, which is what Dogen said about Sayid or MIB- can't remember that either. Richard said he wants to live when Jacob nearly drowns him; I think MIB says this to Sayid or Sawyer? MIB's giving Richard Isabella's cross reminded me of Ben giving Sun Jin's ring which gave her a reason to return to the island- to find him. "Sooner than you think" - MIB says it to Jacob at the end of episode 9 and Unlocke says it in The Substitute after seeing young Jacob with blood on his hands- "I'll be seeing you, Richard, sooner than you think."
Loved that. Hope you take a look at all of them on Friday's episode.

Sun (She didn't mention it could be Jin? On purpose?) calls herself, Jack and Hurley candidates. She volunteered what she knew and was acting pretty confident. I thought it wasn't Sun-like behavior... maybe she knows more...she does have some ownership in her father's company and hence has some connection (however small?) to Widmore. The Widmore thing is what makes me think the candidate is Sun and not Jin. Maybe she's just excited (or not) or curious about the candidate thing and so speaks first.

Also,

The fact that the priest couldn't forgive Richard and Jacob couldn't either bothers me. It seems to be a clue of some sort. Is there no forgiveness in one time line? Is this a consequence of evil getting uncorked and out into the world? Reminds me of movies and such that explore the possibilities and consequences of what would happen if Jesus never died - his death and resurrection being what gives us forgiveness of sin- not automatically, but we have to obey/follow him. Maybe that's reading too much into the Christian thing... Forgive me, I'm a fan religious themes

I thought the verse Richard read in prison was chapter 4, not 14? I don't know. Lostpedia said 4 I think.
Luke 4:37 says 'And the report about Him was spreading into every locality in the surrounding district.'
The preceding verses are about Jesus throwing a demon out of someone... could be relevant? But I guess everything is relevant if you think long enough... aaaarrrrgh. I love it though.

Sorry it's so long, but there are so many good things in this episode!

---Jennifer in Oxford, NC

[Jack]

Jay & Jack,

Rules?

This started as a lack of real substance. Not so much that I didn't believe what others were saying, but it wasn't grounded in anything. It's all speculation. Much of the speculation I get on podcasts (yours included... obviously), read on blogs and hear between friends revolves around how this show is similar to other works. Including books, movies, religions, science and beyond. Everyone has a theory and a take, but its never definitive. Of course this sounds like Good and Evil, Buddhist teachings, The Dark Tower series, The Stand, etc. etc. They are fans just as we are. But if we're really to believe that Damon and Carlton wrote as intelligent a show as this with the main basis for the story being the SAME as any example laid out before hand, then we're all "lost" for such fool hardy thinking. They've created something of which we've never seen before and may never see again.

In any regard, I still don't find any substance in what most people are trying to sell. Lots of ideas and not much substance. Most everything is held in belief of what is to happen. My list of game play and rules is a result of trying to ground this in what we KNOW. If perhaps we understand the rules of the game, look at how it's being played, we can better understand and perhaps predict whats really going on and what will happen on LOST.

I've spent a bit of time trying to find places where it goes wrong. And I've included those at the bottom. Please feel free to tear it apart and add your own thoughts. I'm by no mean an expert and I'm quite sure that I may have skipped over examples that need to be included or that could exclude certain rules.

Any response you may have time for would be greatly appreciated.

So here we go...

Who are the players?

It's all a game of some sort (we can all agree on this?), so lets think about the players as chess pieces here. The most important pieces are the Kings and Queens, least important are the pawns. But just like every chess game, how you set up your pawns will greatly dictate your end game. They are an important vehicle in getting you to your desired end game... winning. However the pieces you use the most are the secondary pieces, the Rooks, Bishops and Knights. They have the greatest mobility (other then the queen). Speaking as characters, they posses "skills" that the pawns do not. So they get used the most and will be instrumental to winning. Without them, the kings and queens can easily navigate pawns to avoid a win. So...

Main Players (Kings or Queens?)
Jacob
MIB

Secondary Players (Knights, Rooks, Bishops?)
Dogan
Christian (?)
Richard Alpert
Ben (was given status when he was "saved" as a child)
The Candidates
Locke
Hurley
Sawyer
Jack
Kwon (Speculation? I think it's Jin. Could be both.)
Kate
Sayid
Desmond (?)
Claire
Illana (?)

Tertiary Players (Pawns) ...All others, such as...
Losties
Miles
Lapidis
Darma Peeps
The Others
Army Team
French Team and Rouseau
Freighter people
Penny
Whitmore (?)
Elloise Hawking (?)
Anyone who had been crossed off of the candidate list.

I know that I'm leaving out Aaron and Ji-Yeon. I'm not sure where theyfall in here, but I believe that they will play a part at some time. What it will be and when remains to be seen.

Who are the teams?
White pieces vs. Black pieces...(Not to sound too much like Twilight fanatics here, but...)

Team Jacob
Jacob
Jack
Hurley
Sun
Jin
Illana
Lapidis
Miles
Ben
Richard Alpert

Team Man In Black (MIB)
MIB
Sayid
Claire
The converted Others who chose to leave the temple in "Sundown"

Unknowns
Kate - She's traveling with Team MIB, but I don't think that she has truly picked MIBs team. Given Recon, MIB is clearly trying to recruit her to do something.

Sawyer - Sawyer is playing both sides of the fence to meet his
own agenda. Who he really will end up siding with? Who knows. Long con for MIB is my guess.

Again, I leave out Aaron and Ji-Yeon because we don't know.

Whidmore. I believe that he's actually a "good" guy and on Team Jacob. Either way, he's still, he's just a third degree player at this point.

Elloise Hawking -
Christian
Desmond... He's gonna come into play somewhere.

The Rules
Here are my rules at this point. They are based on what we've seen and a as little amount of speculation as I could muster. I've tried to provide examples where applicable.

Main players cannot kill each other OR secondary players. We learned this from the "golden boy" in the woods, and from the Jacob and MIB conversation on the beach. This is also why Smokie didn't kill Kate at the Temple as she was climbing down into the hole in Sundown.

Secondary players cannot kill themselves. This is why the dynamite that Richard and Jack light, does not explode. This is also my Michael couldn't commit suicide.

Candidates CAN die by alternative means, but they cannot be directly killed by someone at the other levels.
This is why MIB helps Sawyer in "The Substitute"
when he's hanging on the ladder. MIB needs Sawyer to use later, and if he's dead, he's of no use. This is also why MIB takes Claire off of Kate in "Recon", because Claire really COULD kill her. Micheal eventually dies in an explosion set off by someone else on the freighter. So he eventually dies of non direct alternative means.

Secondary players may NOT kill Candidates even though Candidates MAY kill Secondary players. This is why Locke came back after Ben shot him at The Purge site. Dogan couldn't kill Sayid because he is a candidate This is the same
reason why Dogan sends Jack to kill Sayid initially with the pill. And why Dogan ultimately lets Sayid go after their fight, because he cannot kill him. It's a pointless fight.

Candidates that are crossed off the list are no longer candidates.

In order to kill Main players, you have to be Secondary, on the
SAME team AND they have to kill by choice. They MUST CHOOSE to do so. They cannot be forced into this. Before Ben stabbed Jacob, Jacob explicitly tells Ben that he has a choice of whether to kill him or not. Please note that he could still kill him after he spoke

Main players must also be killed "at the hand of" another. They cannot die by gunshots. Hence we see our favorite dagger appear twice now. It's being kept for special purposes. However Ben, killed Jacob with a knife. I don't think it has to be with a special weapon, you just have to do the killing.

Questions...
These may either prove, or disprove the above rules...

When does one get crossed OFF of the candidate list? When your task, or what the island needs you for is done? ...and/or when you die?

More so... when did the candidate list occur? After Jacob realized that MIB was trying to kill him? If Richard was the first, did he set up the candidates as his just in case scenario, knowing it was all a mater of time?

We have some candidates get shot by people who were candidates, but did they shoot the other person while they were candidates or not? We don't know WHEN many of these folks get crossed off, or have been crossed off, so we don't know if who they've killed and when it happened is relevant to the rules. See Sayid below...

Who killed Sayid (before he was claimed)? Did he die as a result of the gun shot? Who shot him? OR, did he die
from drowning? Who drowned him? Dogan? Lenin? Is it different because it was in the temple pool? Does it possesses special powers? Is it different because he had been claimed before hand? Or did he get claimed because of being in the pool?

Elloise shot Faraday. This may be the big hang up. She is not (as far as we know) secondary. Yet Faraday WAS a candidate at some point. So she shouldn't have been able to kill him. Perhaps they were both candidates? Was he no longer a candidate, so he could die? Is Elloise a secondary player? Could she shoot him because he was her son?

.......................
Given these "rules" I would believe that either Sayid or Claire will end up killing MIB. Most likely Claire. He's been abusive to her... we see the physical side, most then likely it's emotional/mental as well, as he has tried to "keep her motivated". Her (now) bi-polar mood swings are going to turn against MIB in a fit of rage for his trying to get Kate to continue raising her child. It'll all turn at some point.

The more rules that come in, the better we can predict the ending to this piece of work. I'm sure this list will change over the next few episodes.

So there you go... Have at it J&J... let me know what you think.

--
Tobiah

[Jack]

Stephen



Wow what a great episode! Nester was amazing. One of the best performances ever! And more great scenes with MIB and Jacob, not to mention that heartbreaking scene of redemption at the end with Richard, Isabella and Hurley.

Wanted to pass on some observations of a religious bent regarding the bible verse that Richard was reading when the priest entered his cell.

First, I have no hope that this will be read on your podcast, its way to long. I will post it as post on my blog baddlosttheories.blogspot.com/ but just wanted to pass on some thoughts while you were rehashing Ab Aeterno and it was fresh in your minds. I've also attached a screen shot of Richard's bible. I initially loved this episode but didn't see that it provided many answers. I have since come to reconsider that initial thought as being a bit over hasty. I think there are many, many answers that will be uncovered and revealed. But here some information and interpretation on just the fleeting glimpse of Richard's bible.

Richard Alpert's King James Version bible while in prison is opened to Luke 4:24 (King James Version)

24And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

1.) Connection with Ben's quote as Henry Gale from The Brothers Karamazov in "The Whole Truth". If you look to the surround text and both the image of John Locke's faith and Jacob's plans reaches out from beyond his grave.

"And even though your light was shining, yet you see men were not saved by it, hold firm and doubt not the power of the heavenly light. Believe that if they were not saved, they will be saved hereafter. And if they are not saved hereafter, then their sons will be saved, for your light will not die even when you are dead. The righteous man departs, but his light remains. Men are always saved after the death of the deliverer. Men reject their prophets and slay them, but they love their martyrs and honour those whom they have slain. You are working for the whole, are acting for the future.

2.) This passage is part of the Rejection of Jesus by his hometown of Nazareth. Another strong connection with the The Brothers Karamazov quote ("Men reject their prophets and slay them").

Indeed Jesus in this immediate passage is telling the Nazareens, yes I know you will reject me, and you will plan harm to me cause you lack faith (this is sort of implied) (the allusion to 23And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself" refers to what he knows they intend for him...To cast him down.

29And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

30But he passing through the midst of them went his way,

So the people of his hometown felt the power of his message and they could not harm Jesus, but because they knew the 'man' Jesus (you know that carpenter's son who built my shed) they refused to take the leap of faith and accept his divine message. Jesus rebukes them ahead of time, knowing they lacked the faith to accept Jesus as a source of a divine message, because they knew him so closely tied to the mortality they they shared and could not bear to see someone no better than they deliver God's word. This is a very powerful statement about the limitations of humanity. We are more easily led to believe and have faith in mysterious and grand rituals which seem greater than ourselves (like John's faith in the Island) and turn our backs on the message when it is delivered where we need it most, in our everyday lives (like when John Locke is bitter and angry at his paraliysis and wants to lash out by scratching Hurley's car). The failure of the Nazareens is in many ways a failure of them to overcome their own egos. To see the divinity of life in the mud and stench and sweat of their daily lives and to find God's divine message coming from the lowest among them.



3.) The failure of his hometown people to believe also has another possible meaning. Allegorical miricles requiring Faith as opposed to physical miricles. For those who believe that Jesus did not perform physcial miricales but that his miricles were allegorical, the rejection of the Nazareens meant that Jesus could NOT perform miricles because they did not believe. Belief is the miraculous occurence in Jesus' teachings and the actual miricles were when someone who was blind was lifted beyond the physical limits of his affliction to see the power of Jesus' divine message and actually partake in it. To witness and momentarily touch the eternal and the power of life outside of our own selves. Anyway if one follows down this line then it is possible for NON-BELIEVERS to call Jesus' miricles "ILLUSIONS" because they required the faith of those he preached to for them to have an effect (not a physical one). For Lost, this has an allusion (ha ha) to MIB/F-locke's seemingly supernatural powers (getting stabbed to no ill effect; transforming to the smoke monster). I do not say that the smoke monster is fake or not real, but that smokie's appearance as John Locke is more of an apperation than a physcial body. I am content with Daimon and Carlton's explanation that he seems locked (ha ha) in John Locke's form following the death of Jacob. I find a corallary between this interpretation of Jesus' miricles, his choice/failure to perform the miricles for his hometown of Nazareth and the possibility that MIB/F-Locke has some capability to perfrom Illusions as well as the physcial destructive power of the smoke monster. The real question is why does MIB/F-Locke not stay in smokie form and just kill everyone? I think it is because MIB/F-Locke needs to coopt the people on the Island in order to achieve his entire purpose. So in essense, MIB/F-Locke is much more dangerous in his illusionary form as John Locke than as Smokie, and his new limit on appearing as only John Locke is a severe limit on his ability to fool and persuade those on the island he needs to help achieve his darker plan.



4.) The proverb in Luke 4:23 "Physician, heal thyself" also has an allusion to the death of Jacob (the healer) as well as the death of the physician in Richard Alpert's tale. The physician dies because he asks Richard for more than he is able to pay. Is this not similar to Jacob's Faustian bargins. Jacob provided healing, at a price that was very costly (just ask Dogen or Juliet). And in the case of Ben, Jacob asked from him more than he was willing or able to pay (unconditional faith in the face of temptation and suffering--very much like Job was tested). So in the passage in Luke 4:23, Jesus is knowing he is asking for more than the people in his hometown can deliver. And did not Jacob likewise KNOW that he was asing more of Ben than Ben could bear (even as he secretly hoped that he was wrong-according to Miles reading of the ashes).



5.) Luke 4:37 (reference at top of page) Jesus casts out devil, exorcises demons from people. Following his rejection by the people of Nazareth, he performed several miricles, including many prominent exorcisms or casting out of demons. And to my little eye, John Locke definately appears to be possessed. But whether or not John Locke is possessed or an illusion or Smokie made flesh (hope you don't find that blasphemous-appologies if you do) Claire and Sayid can generally be seen to have been possessed or infected by the evil of MIB/F-Locke. Perhaps Luke 4:37 portends the casting out of the demons possessing Claire, Sayid and maybe even F-Locke himself?



6.) Passage immediately following is Luke 4:38, I think the women with fever referenced in the verse has a clear tie in to Isabella dying from a fever. And while Jesus performs a miricle and cures her; while Jacob helps (in the very long term) Richard to be reunited 'in spirit' with his wife and to feel the presense of her love which had never left him-but which he had forgotten. His burying and digging up and wearing his wife's cross is symbolic of his new re-found love. I think the reason why Richard buried his wife's cross is that while he was 'unforgiven' for his sin of murder, he was unworthy to wear it. His doning her cross again was symbolic of his redemption. (Aside: I personally think this is the correct reading of the miricles where Jesus 'raises' the dead to life.)



7.) Gnostic interpretations of this passage led me to review some of the Gnostic interpretations of knowledge and faith which I find have very powerful allegorical refernces to the themes in Lost.

The most powerful theme between Lost and Gnostism, I think is the Gnostic view of knowledge and how it ties in to how our characters on Lost have come to know 'faith'.

Gnosis en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

..."Unlike modern English, ancient Greek was capable of discerning between several different forms of knowing. These different forms may be described in English as being propositional knowledge, indicative of knowledge acquired indirectly through the reports of others or otherwise by inference

Gnosis (γνῶσις) refers to knowledge of the second kind. Therefore, in a religious context, to be 'Gnostic' should be understood as being reliant not on knowledge in a general sense, but as being specially receptive to mystical or esoteric experiences of direct participation with the divine.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis

...Within the cultures of the term's provenance (Byzantine and Hellenic) gnosis was a special knowledge or insight into the infinite, divine and uncreated in all and above all,[2] rather than knowledge strictly into the finite, natural or material world which is called Epistemological knowledge.[3] Gnosis is a transcendental as well as mature understanding.[4] It indicates direct spiritual experiential knowledge[5] and intuitive knowledge, mystic rather than that from rational or reasoned thinking. Gnosis itself is obtained through understanding at which one can arrive via inner experience or contemplation such as an internal epiphany of intuition and external epiphany such as the Theophany.

I think John Locke's Faith in the Island and Jack's Faith in his actions leading to the detonation of the Jughead bomb can be clearly seen as examples of Gnosis or Gnostic Faith. And this has been one of the most frustrating aspects of Lost. Because we want to know WHY and WHAT they believe in in order to validate our emotional connection with the characters and justify the actions of those characters.

8.) just cause I am on a religous theme I will pass on one more observation of a religious tone. That Jacob dunking Richard 3 times until he proclaimed "I want to Live" seemed like a baptism and Richard's 3 renunciations of Jacob, are very similar to Peter renouncing Jesus 3 times before the rooster crowed. (1. Jacob first renounces Jacob when he tries to get Jack to help blow him up; 2. when Ilana says that Jacob said that Richard would know what to do-great insane laugh Nester, and runs off into the jungle looking for MIB; and 3) at the site of the stone bench where he buried his wife's cross where he shouts out to MIB "I've changed my mind" only to have Hurley save him).



9.) and just one last note, did you think that MIB's stone chair amid the stone circle (when Richard brings him the white rock and rejects his offer) looked alot like a memorial bench you might find at a cemetary? Think MIB's 'mom' might be buried there?


sorry these ramblings were so long, take care and thanks again for a most enjoyable podcast and thanks so much for your work supporting Autism Speaks.
aka mr badd

[Jack]

Dear Jack and Jay,

LOVE you guys. LIVE for the show and wanted to further point out this.

I think that MIB is Seth. I know this is not a new theory at all but the more we know about MIB the better it fits and I think it deserves another look. He is the god of chaos sent into exile. He wants to be free. He killed his brother, Osiris. And the Egyptian people believed him to be evil incarnate. He is also the god associated with infertility. So that would explain the women not being able to conceive and give birth on the island due to the proximity of Seth.

Kristi Coocoo in Miramar


www.ancient-egypt-online.com/seth-the-egyptian-god.html

Seth the Egyptian God is also known as the god of chaos. According to popular Egyptian mythology it would certainly seem that he created plenty of mayhem and chaos. Seth was believed to have been born as a second son to Geb and Nut, grandchildren of the ancient Egyptian god Ra.

Seth, god of chaos is also often associated with thunder, thedesert and infertility. Paintings and drawings of him usually depict him as having red hair. Tales differ in regards to whether Seth was evil from birth or became evil at some later point in history. It would appear that regardless of when it occurred, some of the ancient Egyptian people considered Seth the Egyptian god to be none other than evil incarnate.

Perhaps the most well renowned tale concerning Seth the Egyptian god and his evil deeds involves the murder of his brother, Osiris. The beginnings of this tale of treachery, deceit and murder vary, depending upon the folklore. Whatever the reason for the feud; there appears to be no doubt as to the outcome. After first drowning his brother in a coffin in the Nile River, Seth then hacked up Osiris' body and stashed the dismembered body parts all over the Egyptian desert. It appears unclear how she managed this, but Osiris' wife Isis managed to find most of her husband's body parts and bring him back to life long enough to conceive a son, Horus.

Later, Horus would seek to avenge the murderer of his father; Seth the Egyptian god. The two ancient Egyptian gods became embroiled in a battle resulting in injuries to both parties. Horus lost his left eye, however he managed to cut way Seth's testicles. The loss of his testicles is considered to be part of the reason why Seth is so often associated with infertility.

From this point, the final history of Seth the Egyptian god seems to have become a bit unclear. Some versions of Seth's story state that in a final act of vengeance, Horus is said to have exiled Seth to the desert for eternity. Other tales instead content that this decision was left up the ancient Egyptian gods and while there was some indecision among them; particularly in the case of Re who was Seth's grandfather, they finally chose to send Seth into exile.

Records also indicate, however; that according to popular Egyptian mythology Seth was known to protect Re's barge in the underworld, so perhaps he didn't spend all of eternity in the desert after all. In later Egyptian dynasties, some of the god chaos linked to Seth seems to have been forgotten and he gained some popularity. Surprisingly enough, some records even suggest that the number and variety of convoluted stories involving variances between the histories of Osiris, Seth and Horus may have been due to warring battles between cults seeking to establish their chosen deity as superior to others.



Kristi

[Jack]

Jay and Jack,

I’ve been listening to the podcast since season 3 but this is the first time I am writing in because of the theory I have been developing since the last episode of season 5.

I feel that Jacob and “Man in Black” must be representing God and Satan respectively.

The Bible portrays God as someone who allows free will, doesn’t force mankind to serve him but expects that they will because it is Right. To do this more effectively, God used a mediator (or advisor), his son Jesus, to tell humankind why he(Jacob) will always be right. Belief in God leads to belief in creation which in effect means that God created or “brought” humans to this “island” EARTH. Humans don’t have a choice in being born, their choices lie in what they do after they are born, just as do the losties and others after they are brought to this island. I think Richard is representing Jesus in being the Advisor or Mediator of Jacob. His job is to let others know what Jacob expects but to let others make up their own mind about obeying Jacob.

The Bible also portrays Satan as a wicked angel who started out as a good angel with a Spirit body in heaven with God. Once God cast him out of the heavenly realm, Satan was no longer allowed to go back (home). Satan is portrayed as a manipulative, liar who will tell human beings anything they want to hear in order to help Satan’s cause. So to symbolize this on Lost, “Man in Black” is not allowed to go home, his body (humanity) was taken by Jacob so that he is no longer allowed back in heaven to be a spirit creature. Man in black also will lie and tell humans that Jacob is the devil and that only man in Black can get them off the island. This is similar to the account in the Bible of when Satan offered Adam and Eve complete power to stop worshiping God and start worshiping him. Satan also offered Jesus anything he wanted for an act of worship to him knowing full well that he didn’t have the power to give it to them because he would never
be able to destroy God.

I don’t think man in black can ever kill Jacob just as Satan can never destroy God. I think even though Richard is the advisor, humans still look to a man as being their leader which is why the island always had a representative of Jacob. This show is amazing for referencing Jacob as a mystery for so long (similar to man’s view of God, = a mystery) but finally getting to understand the significance of him in season 6.
My biggest dilemma now is what the heck the the Dharma initiative was really for. Was Hanso just trying to find out what happened to the Black Rock all this time? How did Richard Alpert get off the island to recruit Juliette in Portland, Oregon? Is Richard going to start aging now that he accepted the “Man in Black’s” offer to see his girl again? Wasn’t that what he told Jacob he would never do in exchange for his gift of eternal life? This was the best episode since last episode of season 5.

Lee from Neptune, NJ

[Jack]

Hey Jay and Jack.

A coupl'a theories, a coupl'a observations:

- The flash sideways is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the bomb and it isn't an alternate timeline. Whatever purpose it has isn't to illustrate whatever happened because of the bomb. Whatever this timeline is will be the big twist to end the series.

- The MiB infiltrated Jacob's network. First, Ben was taking direction from the person in the cabin, surrounded by the "protection ashes". We know that Alanna identified that "someone else" had been living there and that MiB had escaped through the protections. We also know that it's where Ben summoned what he supposed MiB was: "the security system". My thought is that MiB has also been moonlighting as Jacob and has been manipulating Jacob's followers for a long time now. Ben acknowledged he'd never seen Jacob, yet he was the leader and had to take directions from someone, that someone being MiB in the moving cabin. Further evidence comes from Richard at the purge, when he echoes MiB by saying he gave the Dharmas a chance and then had to kill them all. Where did Richard take the order from, and was it actually from Jacob?

- On this weeks podcast I believe (or I could be crazy) I heard a listener suggest that MiB leaving would mean he would kill everyone. To link this back to some evidence I recall the Valenzetti equation, which " is amathematical calculation designed to predict nothing less than the exact number of yearsleft before the extinction of the human race." We also know that "the numbers, 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42, are explained in the Sri Lanka Video, as the numerical values to the core environmental and human factors of the Valenzetti Equation". So perhaps the characters who correspond to these numbers are the variables that are containing MiB, and not necessarily the island. If the wine is MiB, and the island is the cork, perhaps the candidates are the bottle. Likewise, the numbers at the hatch had a similar containment effect. Perhaps the MiB recognizes that killing the candidates is another way to get out, rather than having to go through Jacob/the island.

- Whidmore isn't there to kill, fight or destroy MiB. He's there to capture him. The fences aren't to keep him out, they're to cage him.

Of course, I also said "no way those yuppies are Whidmore's, he hires para-military guys!" only to be proven wrong less than a minute later. So there you go. Thanks for reading.

Josh in Indianapolis

[Jack]

Sascha


FIRST
In Season 2 when we saw the Blast Door Map, right in the middle there is the word "CERBERUS". From Greek & Roman mythology, we know Cerberus as a 3-headed hound who guards the gates of Hades, to prevent those who have crossed the River Styx from ever escaping.

THEN
In Season 5, the French guy says something about Smokey like "...it's not a monster, it's a security system that protects the temple." Again, the idea of protection, a watch-dog, a defender.

THEN
In Season 6, when Smokey is on his Island Tour in "The Substitute", right before he returns to Locke-ness form, we distinctly hear the sound of a dog panting. Oh yeah.

SO = MY THEORY
MIB/Locke-ness/Smokey is actually enslaved to Jacob, like a dog or service animal = Cerberus, with Jacob = Hades. This is why he cannot kill Jacob (he cannot kill his master), and needed a loophole to kill him, because doing it himself was indeed "against the rules" (as the bloodied wandering Forest Child said to Locke-ness). As Wiki states: Cerberus was always employed as Hades' loyal watchdog, and guarded the gates that granted access and exit to the underworld (also called Hades).

As for Locke-ness' claims that he was once a man, and that he once had a crazy mother, who gave him issues, and that all he wants to do is "go home." Check this Wiki reference: Cerberus was the son of Echidna, a hybrid half-woman, half-serpent. Sounds like she might be pretty crazy mother, no?

Also from Wiki: The common depiction of Cerberus in Greek mythology and art is as having three heads, and in most works the three-heads each respectively see and represent the past, the present, and the future. Time-travel, anyone?

And another: Each of Cerberus' heads is said to have an appetite only for live meat and thus allow the spirits of the dead to freely enter the underworld, but allow none to leave. AKA "The Island's not done with you yet."

And finally:
Most occurrences in ancient literature revolve around the basis of the threat of Cerberus being overcome to allow a living being access to the underworld. Explains how he was he able to take over Locke, Christian, Kate's black horse, Vincent

[Jack]

Jay and Jack,

I’ve been listening to the podcast since season 3 but this is the first time I am writing in because of the theory I have been developing since the last episode of season 5.

I feel that Jacob and “Man in Black” must be representing God and Satan respectively.

The Bible portrays God as someone who allows free will, doesn’t force mankind to serve him but expects that they will because it is Right. To do this more effectively, God used a mediator (or advisor), his son Jesus, to tell humankind why he(Jacob) will always be right. Belief in God leads to belief in creation which in effect means that God created or “brought” humans to this “island” EARTH. Humans don’t have a choice in being born, their choices lie in what they do after they are born, just as do the losties and others after they are brought to this island. I think Richard is representing Jesus in being the Advisor or Mediator of Jacob. His job is to let others know what Jacob expects but to let others make up their own mind about obeying Jacob.

The Bible also portrays Satan as a wicked angel who started out as a good angel with a Spirit body in heaven with God. Once God cast him out of the heavenly realm, Satan was no longer allowed to go back (home). Satan is portrayed as a manipulative, liar who will tell human beings anything they want to hear in order to help Satan’s cause. So to symbolize this on Lost, “Man in Black” is not allowed to go home, his body (humanity) was taken by Jacob so that he is no longer allowed back in heaven to be a spirit creature. Man in black also will lie and tell humans that Jacob is the devil and that only man in Black can get them off the island. This is similar to the account in the Bible of when Satan offered Adam and Eve complete power to stop worshiping God and start worshiping him. Satan also offered Jesus anything he wanted for an act of worship to him knowing full well that he didn’t have the power to give it to them because he would never
be able to destroy God.

I don’t think man in black can ever kill Jacob just as Satan can never destroy God. I think even though Richard is the advisor, humans still look to a man as being their leader which is why the island always had a representative of Jacob. This show is amazing for referencing Jacob as a mystery for so long (similar to man’s view of God, = a mystery) but finally getting to understand the significance of him in season 6.
My biggest dilemma now is what the heck the the Dharma initiative was really for. Was Hanso just trying to find out what happened to the Black Rock all this time? How did Richard Alpert get off the island to recruit Juliette in Portland, Oregon? Is Richard going to start aging now that he accepted the “Man in Black’s” offer to see his girl again? Wasn’t that what he told Jacob he would never do in exchange for his gift of eternal life? This was the best episode since last episode of season 5.

Lee from Neptune, NJ

[Jack]

My name is Berk and I'm living in Turkey. I'm a huge Lost fan. I was very excited about this last season but it seems like everything is going wrong...

You, and about everyone, loved the "Ab Aeterno" episode. But to be honest, it wasn't that good. Yes it included great acting, yes knowing Richard's past was good etc. etc. But is it enough? There are just hundreds of questions that piled up from the first season till the last episode. I don't think they are going to answer all of them. The reosen people liked "Ab Aeterno" it answered one of the most biggest questions, but there are a lot of them remaining... They would have to make 3 or 4 seasons just to answer them, without adding more questions. This season can never satisfy me even if they show us what is that island, who is Jacob, who is man in Locke and few others.. It can never satisfy because there are tons of questions I think they can't and won't answer in this season like;

- Why did the Oceanic Six have to go back?
- Why did Miles decide to stay on the island?
- What's up with the blast door map?
- Why did psychic Richard Malkin insist Claire raise Aaron?
- Why did DHARMA and the Others allow Rousseau's distress signal to continue to be transmitted?
- What's up with Libby?
- Why was she a patient at Santa Rosa?
- How did Desmond get his clothes blown off after the hatch implosion?
- Who is Henry Gale really, and how did he break his neck?
- Who buried him?
- Aaron was part of the oceanic 6, why didnt he have to return to the island?
- What about he vision Desmond had of Claire getting into a helicopter?
- Why the lid of the hatch thing said 'quarantine'?
- Claire was the only Australian on a flight from Sydney? Isn't that a bit strange?


Believe me there are a lot more... Of course they are going to answer the major questions but what about these ones? None of them aro going to be answered, I'm sure.

But I also believe there is a way to answer all of them, and they are going to use it. Mostly on the movies, we see some additional "mini-series" that explains the secrets or questions that never answered through the movies. The most popular one is the "Animatrix" that came out later the trilogy ends. I think same is going to happen with the Lost. They are going to make a "mini-series" or some kind of "anime" or even a website that updated daily or weekly. Whatever they can earn some money. Mark my words, this is going to happen. They are going to earn more and more money after this season ends. I don't know how exactly, but it's going to be like I said.