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Post by rollingdoughnut on Jul 1, 2008 13:13:20 GMT -5
Clif is clearly intelligent and articulate. So at least it's not "Mystery" doing this segment. In one Youtube video alone, he talked about taking fluff around with you in a "prop bag", so that you could approach people and pick it off them, and setting up a "jealousy plotline about 50 minutes into a set." Which is just weird. Anyway, love the tips and stories and stuff, keep up the great work.
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Post by trocien on Jul 2, 2008 15:49:18 GMT -5
Clif, you are doing an honest great job. Keep up the good work and don't listen to these punks.
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Post by lostlobita on Jul 2, 2008 17:10:39 GMT -5
Hybrid's segment is okay. It doesn't have the same tempo and fun as the other segments, but it's interesting to hear how the other half think in the relationship game. Hybrid is no Tom Leykis (a troll of a misogynist man on talk radio who calls himself the Professor).
Hybrid/Clif keep doing your thing and don't worry about the naysayers.
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uffda
New Member
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Post by uffda on Jul 4, 2008 9:16:08 GMT -5
Okay, I've been listening to Jay and Jack from the beginning, and every few months I stop by the boards to see what people are saying about Lost or the podcast, but this is the first time I've been moved to comment. (In some ways, adding a controversial segment is actually a pretty smart move....). Everybody wants to increase their status in relation to their group. This is natural, nobody ever wants to "give away" their status. Women often try to raise their status within their group by dating men who are higher status than them. That's why when women will date a teacher, minister, truck driver, bartender, Walmart employee, janitor, writer, cook, or any other man because that guy has higher status than the woman he's chosen or dating. This brings us to an interesting point, in a marriage, the reason why there are divorces is because there is a shifted balance in the status of the man and woman. When they were married, the husband had slightly higher status than his wife. But over time, the husband got lazy and wasn't sharp or didn't care, but his status fell. If the woman perceives the man as lower status than her, she'll leave and fine another man who's higher status. Wait, what the... Okay, I didn't much care one way or the other about what was said on the PUA section of the podcast (the first episode was funny, the second very defensive, the third a bit dry... but I could see how after the initial ire dies down it could swing back around to funny and I'm wiling to give it a chance), but this is a bit too much and requires more of an explanation. This is, of course, offensively sexist. Are there no smart, educated, interesting, talented women out there? Must they always date "above" them? My best friend is a professor and her husband is a college drop-out. By your analysis, they should be divorced (no, they never should have gotten married in the first place - this was true five years ago), but instead, she can only be the super-achiever that she is because she has his support - he's willing to be the helpmate in their relationship (that said, he does work - he is not some dodgy freeloader taking advantage of her. He'll just always have a reasonably low-level office job, and she's getting published in well-respected journals). Why should any relationship in which the woman is more successful, more educated, more... anything automatically fail? Either you didn't mean it this way, to which I say no problem, but can you clarify a bit, or you've gotten too deep into the gross generalizations. While your explanation for divorce is no doubt true in some cases - there is ample empirical evidence - it is certainly not true in all cases, and as women *gasp* seek to have what men have always had - i.e. access to the higher ranks of society - men are going to have to learn to adjust. It goes without saying, though, that people also get divorced because partners cheat, because they disagree about having children, because one side (not always male) becomes abusive, because the partners are moving in different and incompatible directions career-wise... not just lazy guys who failed to stay "better" than their women.
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Post by thebeatlesremain on Jul 4, 2008 10:23:01 GMT -5
bunch of whiners trying to control Cliff's life and decisions, he knows more about this then we do, so who are we to educate him on this stuff?
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Post by juggs on Jul 6, 2008 21:31:10 GMT -5
70% of what Clybrid says is totally true, 50% of the time.
His generalizations for the most part are true, just not ALL the time.
If this is all just discussion, its great, but if your bashing the Clybrid, then its unnessessary. I cannot really tell right now, the internet is a hard place to undertand ones expressions, especially when you had a few too many to drink.
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CarcinoGenny
New Member
desperate straits and disparate locations
Posts: 48
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Post by CarcinoGenny on Jul 7, 2008 0:21:51 GMT -5
OMG Clybrif, That history lesson made me giggle. I would certainly like to see the social anthropological research that was being referenced. And I'm not buying The Secret, oops, I mean The Mystery Method because I have a feeling he doesn't have copious footnotes. Sorry, otherwise it was fun, and I'm totally interested in this segment obviously. I feel like, if you want to get your points across, have a prerecorded segment on the topic and your experiences, and then maybe a Q+A with Jay and Jack because with the 2 of them it's hard to get a word in edgewise, unless you go with their flow. But you have a specific agenda, and it feels like that core of your message or you contemplations of this process gets lost in the shuffle. I like how-- you're working out this whole PUA thing, and the segment is working itself and its place within the J&J Show out----everything needs a little jostling to finally settle into place. And it will.
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Post by The Hybrid on Jul 7, 2008 10:55:56 GMT -5
Whoa whoa whoa, uffda.. i'm not sexist, I love sex... ok but that's beside the point. You're right it does need some clarification, and if i were to clarify, it would take a long Long, LONG time to explain. When ever there is an interaction between two people, there are three "situational status" things that happen: Person A has more status than Person B Person B has more status that Person A Person A and B have the same status. DHV's and DLV's are the basis of these interactions within the community. Demonstration of Higher Status and Demonstration of Lower Status. An example of a DHV is having confidence, while a DLV may be nervousness. You see, the community uses these definitions to generalize the interactions between people, specifically between and man and a woman. What they don't tell you is you can put any "type" of DHV or DLV into your own personality. For example, a DHVs for me is that I work for a film production company and I enjoy my work. I work on Jon and Kate + 8, the number one rated TV show, I do a podcast with Jay and Jack that have over 30,000 listeners. Some DLV's of mine use to be, that I was clingy, and really "needed" someone, I always stayed at home and never went out, I never liked going to parties or socializing. The DHV's and the DLV's are the generalization, the specific emotions and interactions between Person A and Person B are souly their's to experiment with. Within the generalization, there is the randomness and the individual personality that they bring to the table, but it's all about getting men and women to understand the broad dynamic so they can also understand the unique interactions they hold with different people everyday. So when we get back to to a relationship between a man and a woman, a healthy relationship is where both partners are of equal status or the man is just slightly above. Both parties should benefit from the relationship, if both parties don't or one only benefits, then the relationship should end. When both parties don't benefit, or one party benefits, then this is where most of the divorces and break ups happen. Basically, this stuff is to understand how people work, and to understand how people interact with each other. If you understand that, you can begin to unlock your potential and become a better person however you see fit.
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uffda
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Post by uffda on Jul 8, 2008 20:20:46 GMT -5
Wow, that's much, much better. Really. I hope you understand the basis of my reaction the first time - this is a very, very different way of making this point.
Without actually knowing PUA theory etc., I'd actually argue that really healthy relationships require both people to have the perception of equal status - that all your good qualities and bad qualities balance out, and that both people contribute equally to the relationship. Otherwise, some relationships succeed with the man having higher status, and some (probably in lower numbers overall) succeed with the woman ahead.
I suspect that the whole original scenario came from the observation that there are a lot of couples in which the man has higher status that the woman; from that you might assume that women seek out men of higher status than themselves. But from the same evidence you could also assume that men only seek out women with lower status than themselves - that for whatever reason, ego, self-confidence, whatever - they need to feel better than the women in their lives. I'd guess that there are examples of both in the world.
(BTW, I said it before and I said it again - I'm listening to the podcast, and I find Cliff actually quite likable. Doesn't mean I'm not going to argue with him if he makes a sexist generalization, though. I hope that's okay?)
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CarcinoGenny
New Member
desperate straits and disparate locations
Posts: 48
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Post by CarcinoGenny on Jul 9, 2008 13:19:45 GMT -5
If you hadn't, uffda, then he wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to explain more thoroughly. Thanks.
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Post by The Hybrid on Jul 12, 2008 9:00:39 GMT -5
True, that's something i'm working on is conveying my ideas and my thoughts on blogs and on forums. I'm getting better and it helps to practice writing. Thanks for pointing that out without even knowing it.
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Post by steelchick on Jul 12, 2008 10:02:39 GMT -5
+48 for clif
I mean the Hybrid! ;D
love ya, mean it
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